What do you do on this river?

[durron597]

I was fairly certain that MP1 and CO were going to call the raise (and not reraise), so I figured I had implied odds to call preflop. I also think that the turn is an easy call. The river, on the other hand, I'm not certain what the best action is. I felt that the CO was the strongest player on the table.

No-limit Texas Hold'em $5+$.50 (real money), hand #895,198,925
San Diego Single Table Tournament, 11 May 2005 08:55 PM

Seat 2: UTG ($1,005 in chips)
Seat 3: MP1 ($1,910 in chips)
Seat 4: MP2 ($985 in chips)
Seat 5: CO ($1,850 in chips)
Seat 7: Button ($4,680 in chips)
Seat 8: SB ($3,300 in chips)
Seat 10: Hero [7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] ($1,270 in chips)


ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts blind ($15), Hero posts blind ($30).

PRE-FLOP
1 fold, MP1 calls $30, 1 fold, CO calls $30, Button bets $100, 1 fold, Hero calls $70, MP1 calls $70, CO calls $70.

FLOP [board cards Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ] (Pot: $415)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

TURN [board cards Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],10[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ] (Pot: $415)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO bets $60, Button folds, Hero calls $60, MP1 folds.

RIVER [board cards Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],10[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ] (Pot: $535)
Hero ....

[Tilt]

I like a check raise here to induce the bluff (if he is an aggressive player). If he had the flush draw he would have bet the flop. Let him think his AT is good, or that he can shake you off the hand with his missed KJ straight draw.

FWIW, I would have raised or folded on the turn, not check/called it.

[sng-sam]

[ QUOTE ]
I like a check raise here to induce the bluff (if he is an aggressive player)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this at all.

[ QUOTE ]
If he had the flush draw he would have bet the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

really? I think alot of people check hoping to get a free card. esp. in late pos.

I think you check/fold the river. I agree that raising on the flop to see where you are is a good idea but since you didn't and DON'T know where you are...check/fold [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Don't be seduced by a pretty hand.

[pergesu]

I don't get how the river is the hardest part to play here. You only saw the turn because it checked around, and you should have folded here.

Bet out the river. I think there's only a tiny chance he'll call, but I think it's better than the chance of him betting for you.

[pergesu]

I think you check/fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh?

Maybe I misread the hh or something, but it looks like hero finally made his hand here. The only way you fold this is if you're positive he has a flush, J9, or overset. You have to bet this for value, and can fold to a big raise.

[swarm]

[ QUOTE ]
I like a check raise here to induce the bluff (if he is an aggressive player). If he had the flush draw he would have bet the flop. Let him think his AT is good, or that he can shake you off the hand with his missed KJ straight draw.

FWIW, I would have raised or folded on the turn, not check/called it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't agree with a check raise. Only thing villan calls with a check raise is a straight or a flush which both beat you. Not everyone bets flops with flush draws and the $60 bet on the turn could be a blocking bet to try and get a cheap card.

Check/Call the river, it's a nice sized pot and you would be happy to take down a $600 pot. If you have him beat he is not going to call a large check raise anyway to make it worth the risk and against solid players you are asking for someone to come over the top of you with a bluff which makes for a truly difficult decision.

You can only make this play if you have a dead on read of said player. I just don't think you can make that at this point, some people play their draws very meek.

[go fish]

For one thing, I would have bet the turn. At the 5.50 level this guy could be slow-playing a Q, scared of the flush draw. You'd have a lot better idea with a 100 bet. You might take it right there. With a Q or flush draw at this level, and maybe with a T, he'll probably just call and not raise. If he raises you have a decision to make. He might have hit his set.

The river is tough. If you'd bet on the turn and he called, I'd think about checking hoping to raise, but then he could feasibly check it down with his pair after your turn bet. I think here I would probably put out a 200 bet and, you know, only get called if I'm losing, right? Then again, this is a 5.50. So I might even call a raise here.

Please tell me if these thoughts are wacky in any way.

Edit: And of course I looked over it so quickly I didn't even see the straight. I think with J9 he bets bigger on the turn, so I still like betting the turn to see where you stand, but then I tend to throw money away.

[ekky]

is check calling a viable play here? you get to snap off a bluff/TPTK etc yet still keep the pot relatively small if he has rivered a flush/made a straight.

I'd check call here much more often then lead out/check raise... reason being if I check/call.. i get to see a showdown for x amount, rather then putting x amount in and then having to fold to a re-raise all in.. therefore getting better value for x.

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
For one thing, I would have bet the turn. At the 5.50 level this guy could be slow-playing a Q, scared of the flush draw. You'd have a lot better idea with a 100 bet. You might take it right there. With a Q or flush draw at this level, and maybe with a T, he'll probably just call and not raise. If he raises you have a decision to make. He might have hit his set.


[/ QUOTE ]
Geez, why? It's level 2 with three overcards in a low buyin SNG. That's probably the worst situation ever to try to take a stab at a pot.




Some of the people here have seriously misplaced aggression. Betting/raising the flop or turn, and folding the river? As soon as you see that flop, you're done with the hand. Great, you get a free turn card. Still done. River comes and you actually have something - that's when you get involved.

[go fish]

Yeah, but...how large of a bet will you call on the river? I just think in terms of that, and once I have that number, I'm going to bet 1/2-3/4 of that number, generally, and sometimes just bet that number. I'd just rather be the one betting than the one calling. If I get raised it's easier to put the guy on a hand - depending on the size, I am better able to figure out if he's bluffing at the pot, or whether he has the straight or flush or a pair or set.