I hate these

istewart · #1 05-10-2005, 04:08 AM

Another one vs. an unknown. Sorry about these. Last day of whoring, for the moment. I was planning on calling down, FWIW.

Tell me if you do anything differently here and why.

Also, I'd like to know of a good line for this hand if the villain is very TAG, possibly a 2+2er.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: (5.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: 5.75 BB

no1super2001 · #2 05-10-2005, 04:23 AM

Preflop is fine. Once you lost the button on the flop, I think you 3 bet this hand for value. That flop requires you protect your hand.

I think I would lead the turn. He could just as easily be calling with an 8. If he raises again, close the betting and release the hand to a bet when the A comes on the river.

pistol78 · #3 05-10-2005, 04:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is fine. Once you lost the button on the flop, I think you 3 bet this hand for value. That flop requires you protect your hand.

I think I would lead the turn. He could just as easily be calling with an 8. If he raises again, close the betting and release the hand to a bet when the A comes on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, If you have hero calling a turn raise then you pretty much are comitting him to a showdown.

aron · #4 05-10-2005, 06:54 AM

Being out of position I don't think I could make myself do anything else in this hand.
I would play it like you did and feel crippled throughout the entire hand.
That rivercard sucks.
-aron

cmwck · #5 05-10-2005, 07:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you 3 bet this hand for value.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this will actually take away value on later streets if we scared him with an 8. He'll also fold bluffs, might fold overcard(s) hands, and we'll be shooting ourself in the foot if he caps.

[ QUOTE ]

That flop requires you protect your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

From what? He'll have 2-3 outs if we're ahead.

[ QUOTE ]

I think I would lead the turn. He could just as easily be calling with an 8.

[/ QUOTE ]
Again, I think this will just result in bad hands folding and better hands raising or calling.

HajiShirazu · #6 05-10-2005, 07:18 AM

I would bet the river and get hope to get paid off by his 8 or middle pair, easy fold to a raise.

Piiop · #7 05-10-2005, 07:26 AM

I would also bet the river here, folding to a raise. I also would call down if he bet the turn.

It's very unlikely that he'll bluff bet an Ace here since it's likely that you have one. If he has a mid PP, an 8, or nothing, he will almost always check it thru. So basically anytime he bets, it will be with a weirdly played Q or A.

However, he may have an 8 or mid PP that he will call with if he bets. He will occasionally have nothing, but that doesn't matter cuz it's unlikely he would bluff with it anyway.

I can't think any hand a good TAG would play this way.

@bsolute_luck · #8 05-10-2005, 08:39 AM

i'd bet the river based on your read of player. if he had the Q, he would have slowplayed it. river card sux, but i'd probably still bet it because i doubt a TAG (possible 2+2er) is playing A8 to an UTG PRF raiser in MP...maybe A8s, but i'd still give it a shot.

McGahee · #9 05-10-2005, 09:00 AM

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but you might want to make a note that villian isn't as good as you think.
What possible holding could a "TAG" coldcall with PF and use the free card play with on this board, then check behind with a river'd ace?

ArturiusX · #10 05-10-2005, 09:27 AM

3-bet the flop and we have a different hand.