2 problems of mine- help?

irishpint · #1 05-09-2005, 03:55 PM

ok this might be obvious to some people but im having some trouble. i win my share of big hands, but i also lose stupid hands that I probably shouldnt be in. Say I raise PF with AKo and flop comes rainbow trash. Either Im first up or its checked to me- doesn't matter- and I bet only to be raised. Can I fold to the raise? Or do I call it and fold to a turn bet unimproved? I think thats the line I like. Or can I play AK all the way to the river knowing that spiking either will win me the pot?

My other concern is again when the flop misses me and i bet (since i raised PF- is that stupid? do you often check/call or check/fold after a PF raise if you dont connect and the board isnt scary?) and Im called. I bet the turn again and am called. Ok...so now Ive got nothing. River comes another blank. Now if I check and he checks Im most likely losing the hand. If i check and he bets I fold and I lose the hand. Usually I take a stab at the pot by betting only to be called down and beaten by bottom pair, because I couldnt stand giving up the pot to what could be a bluff (if i bet the flop an turn and check the river i either never had anything or missed my draw). Any thoughts on these situations?

12ozLongneck · #2 05-09-2005, 04:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ok this might be obvious to some people but im having some trouble. i win my share of big hands, but i also lose stupid hands that I probably shouldnt be in. Say I raise PF with AKo and flop comes rainbow trash. Either Im first up or its checked to me- doesn't matter- and I bet only to be raised. Can I fold to the raise? Or do I call it and fold to a turn bet unimproved? I think thats the line I like. Or can I play AK all the way to the river knowing that spiking either will win me the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

As stated in SSHE, it's not a good idea to be seen betting and folding in the same round. People will see that and take shots at you all night. Whether or not you should continue unimproved on the turn depends on the size of the pot and the other players who are still around.

[ QUOTE ]
My other concern is again when the flop misses me and i bet (since i raised PF- is that stupid? do you often check/call or check/fold after a PF raise if you dont connect and the board isnt scary?) and Im called. I bet the turn again and am called. Ok...so now Ive got nothing. River comes another blank. Now if I check and he checks Im most likely losing the hand. If i check and he bets I fold and I lose the hand. Usually I take a stab at the pot by betting only to be called down and beaten by bottom pair, because I couldnt stand giving up the pot to what could be a bluff (if i bet the flop an turn and check the river i either never had anything or missed my draw). Any thoughts on these situations?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's hard to answer a question this general. How many players are left? Do you have position? What will the players who are left call you down with?

Bodhi · #3 05-09-2005, 04:12 PM

The things you need to consider are:

The size of the pot
The texture of the flop (did it miss everyone else too?)
The number of opponents
How your opponents play

It sounds like you're on the right track, but you need to improve your skill at making quick decisions based on the above considerations. Do you have SSHE?

irishpint · #4 05-09-2005, 04:16 PM

ive got SSHE and just finished reading it again. I have some good friends who win a lot and they look at my poker tracker stats and say they are good but i go to showdown just a bit too much. at 50/1 and 1/2 my BB/100 is about 1...and i feel like it would be much higher if i coulkd cut out these stupid loses. Ill win a big hand or two, and then chase AK all the way to the river, check that, get bet into. Call the bet and lose to a pair of 3's.

This is probably what everyone says, but winning big pots with good hands isnt my problem. Its knowing when to let go of band hands, or good hands that dont connect, especially after a PF raise, with say AK. Ill post some hands here, hold on.

Grail · #5 05-09-2005, 04:20 PM

You looking for a simple answer to a complex question.

Whole chapters of many books have been writen about this type of situation. The only good advice is that everything matters. Posisiton, how ragged the board is, do you have any extra draws, reads etc.

Playing these types of hands well is one of the hallmarks of expert play.

-G

Bodhi · #6 05-09-2005, 04:20 PM

If you have correct odds, a ragged flop, and only 1 or 2 opponents then you should go to the river with AK every time trying to spike a pair. These aren't "losses" if you are playing correctly. See my post about AKs out of position.

irishpint · #7 05-09-2005, 04:23 PM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, 1 fold, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Button calls, Hero raises, MP folds, Button calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (9.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (6.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

irishpint · #8 05-09-2005, 04:26 PM

First hand: I dunno what to do. Im lost.

Secodn hand: did he try for a check raise on the turn and miss? did he want to raise me? or was he scared? Did he bet the river because i checked the turn?

THird hand: Lost to a pair of 3's. With 2 opponents was I right to check the river? I doubt I could get both of them to fold for one more bet. Was I right to bet the flop and turn?

bozlax · #9 05-09-2005, 04:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As stated in SSHE, it's not a good idea to be seen betting and folding in the same round.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry too much about this in the online games, especially at micro-limits. Nobody's paying that much attention to what you do.

Sasnak · #10 05-09-2005, 07:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As stated in SSHE, it's not a good idea to be seen betting and folding in the same round.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry too much about this in the online games, especially at micro-limits. Nobody's paying that much attention to what you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on whom the players at the table are. Most don't, but many do. That being said, I have no problem releasing a hand which misses badly. Continuing on with a hand you don't like is more of a pride thing. I'd dump a hand if need be and not worry about what others think. Next time they make a play at you you can reraise with a better hand/draw.