Bet the river?

bones · #1 05-06-2005, 11:03 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter

BB (t785)
UTG (t755)
UTG+1 (t955)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t790)
MP3 (t775)
CO (t760)
Hero (t775)
SB (t1605)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t30, 1 fold, MP2 raises to t60, 2 folds, Hero calls t60, 2 folds, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: (t172.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t172.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets t70, MP2 calls t70.

River: (t312.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: t312.50

meff66 · #2 05-06-2005, 11:21 PM

i don't see a reason to. there is a VERY good chance that your flush is good, but betting into him could put you on a very tough call if he were to let it rip. similiarly, if you do have him beat, what bet amount would you even expect a call on? i just don't see the point.
personally, i would have reraised preflop to T120..hit the flop for 3/4 pot on his check. it's likely you could have taken it down there.

bones · #3 05-06-2005, 11:30 PM

I usually like to keep pots smallish (with jacks)pre-flop, especially with 2 min-raisers ahead of me. If I get re-popped, I have to muck a good hand with position.

mosdef · #4 05-06-2005, 11:32 PM

i think you should bet that. the opponent could have called your turn bet with any diamond sensing a bluff.

also, calling two raises preflop with JJ? that's a no-no, IMHO.

meff66 · #5 05-06-2005, 11:33 PM

aaaah, didn't catch that second raiser. i agree with you. quite possible second min-raiser was sitting on something. suprised no one hit the flop/turn???

again though, i'd check the river anyway...being thankful that you backed into your flush.

bones · #6 05-06-2005, 11:35 PM

I'd muck to a reasonable raise. But min-raises at the 20s simply means they have 2 cards. You'll get shown anything from K9s to 22.

mosdef · #7 05-06-2005, 11:43 PM

ok, i don't argue that. BUT...

when the flop comes, you've either spiked your set, or missed.

when you've missed, there is at least one overcard more than 1/2 the time, and even if you know they MIGHT have crap, well you're still in an uncomfortable situation fighting over a handful of chips at the start of a tourney.

so, to me, you're paying for your set value. and your paying too much. i stand by the philosophy that i'd rather wait until the bubble and capitalize on opponent mistakes there rather than playing a dangerous guessing game with my JJ vs overcards here.

willie · #8 05-06-2005, 11:50 PM

nah, what worse hand calls you?

bones · #9 05-06-2005, 11:50 PM

As far as cEv goes, I don't entirely disagree. But I don't want to stunt my development as a poker player by being reluctant to play post-flop, which I really think folding here is doing. I felt like I could get away from the jacks pretty easily if I needed to. I don't mind being in marginal situations as long as the price is right and I have position, which I felt was the case here.

bones · #10 05-06-2005, 11:51 PM

That was my thinking, and the only one I could come up with was the one he flipped over.