Going for river check-raises

ddubois · #1 05-05-2005, 03:10 PM

-------- Hand #1

I don't have any real reads, just an inclination that Villan is slightly on the LAG side.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, MP 3-bets, 4 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.70 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks...

-------- Hand #2

Villan is definately aggro, with alot of bluffing in him:

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks...

krishanleong · #2 05-05-2005, 03:16 PM

No on hand 1

Easy yes on hand 2.

Krishan

RunDownHouse · #3 05-05-2005, 03:59 PM

Like Krishan said.

I don't know why it even crossed your mind in Hand 1.

ddubois · #4 05-05-2005, 04:39 PM

Elaborate, please.

TMFS9 · #5 05-05-2005, 04:49 PM

Unless the Q helped villan in hand one it is a really scary card, completed a straight, flush, and a plethora of broadway hands just two paired up on him. So he will check a lot hands behind here that will call a bet. Also if the Q did help him in anyway he will raise allowing you to 3 bet.

Edit: I thought you ended up rivering your flush, so I wouldn't be inclined to 3 bet a raise here.

ddubois · #6 05-05-2005, 05:26 PM

Playing devil's advocate, but given that he three-bet preflop, is it more likely he has a hand that is scared of two pair, or that he has 2 pair or better? AK AQ AJ AT AA KK QQ TT don't fear a KQ "suckout". Unless he got out of line with A9, he has to put me on exactly pair+gutshot to check behind one of the hands I listed, right?

TMFS9 · #7 05-05-2005, 05:54 PM

There is a good chance that villan has two pair or better here, but a player that only 3 bets a narrow range preflop quite possibly will check behind some 2 pair hands here on the river as well. But the fact that a 4 card straight along with a flush came on the river i just see it getting checked through to often.

krishanleong · #8 05-05-2005, 06:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
quite possibly will check behind some 2 pair hands here on the river ... the fact that a 4 card straight along with a flush came on the river i just see it getting checked through to often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. 4 straight boards are just about the worse boards to try a river check raise on. Unless he is a 2+2er or notorious value better isn't no good.

Krishan

donger · #9 05-05-2005, 07:17 PM

In hand one, isn't the fact that he never had the lead a consideration, in being able to checkraise?

Some LAGish opponents will automatically bet a marginal hand if they sense weakness (like an OOP check on a scary board.) This is especially true if you have a tight image or sense they are trying to run over you. I would be more inclined to try a CR here if it went bet-call/bet-call/check.. on the river.

I would definitely lead this river, having been check/calling on the previous streets, though.

ddubois · #10 05-05-2005, 07:48 PM

In hand 1, villan checked behind AK! [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
In hand 2, Villan checked behind 44 (with a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]).