How to Catch a Cheater?

[mightywhitey125]

I've been paying in the same home game for quite some time. It's not a large money game by any means, just .50 cent/dollar NL holdem. One of the guys I play with i'm almost absolutely certain is cheating now, and i need to know how to catch him. This guy dabbled in magic for awhile, and can do some pretty amazing stuff with a deck of cards, and part of his mistake was showing us what he is capable of. Now i want to say first and FOREMOST, i CANNOT prove he is cheating, I am only fairly certain, and i'll tell you why. We play a tournament after cash games, and this person has taken me (or others) out of the tournament the SAME EXACT way the last four weeks running. This happens ONLY when he is dealing, doesn't offer a cut, or false cuts the deck (someone will cut the deck, and he'll put the top back on the top) He ends up dealing himself an Ace-face, or Ace anything, and deals the BB a pocket pair of 10's or higher (both times against me i was dealt QQ) he just calls OTB, BB raises, and he immediatlely goes all in over the top, BB calls with his large pair, and he proceeds to deal himself an ACE (usually 2nd card on flop) on the flop every time. This is NOT an exaggeration, he has not lost a showdown with ACe-anything when he dealing, he continues to catch 3 outter after 3 outter. This person is a terrible player, and has only began to win money in the past couple weeks. I know how difficult it is to deal someone a specific hand and arrange a deck, but i can't see this as him just being "lucky". If someone thinks i'm paranoid, please tell me, but i really think we are getting conned and i would like to remove this fellow from our home game..... ONLY way i can do this is to catch him, any ideas?

[sct]

He doesn't offer a cut? No dice on that one. Force a cut and make it a dramatic part of every deal not just his. That should solve the problem.

[mightywhitey125]

you are missing my point... i want to never play this person again... people get drunk and don't cut the deck, and this home game i really like to play in, i like the people and atmosphere. I don't want this person in it, i don't want to have to worry about someone cheating at a lousy .50/1 NL hold em game, if i was playin for profit, i'd play in the 4/8 Limit or 1/2 NL games i know. Please post on a way to catch him... not offer a solution to "deter" his behavior

[warewulf]

To deter or stop him --

The way I run my game and have seen this used at other games. The dealer DOES NOT touch the deck prior to dealing.

1. The dealer of the last hand shuffles. (not the next dealer)
2. When the hand is over, the player to his left cuts the cards to the new dealer.

A cut card also must be used.

[Piper Tim]

Do what the others have suggested, but I doubt he is cheating. And unless everybody is sloshed and doesn't notice him bllatantly screwing with the cards, you would see him stacking the deck. There is a big difference between magic and card cheating. You won't catch a good cheater. I dabble in magic as well and can't (nor wouldn't use any moves are the cardtable). False cuts would be hard to detect. But other dealing methods and deck stacking are incredibly hard and take more than just knowing the moves. Unless he was very experienced, you would probably see the sleights at the card table as they often require misdirection. It takes balls to actually cheat.

[HitHard69]

Had the same type of problem in one of my homes games, but the suspected cheater was the host, so it was a little sticky. I shared my thoughts with some of the other regulars and they all agreed he could be cheating, so one day I showed up with some cut cards and said I thought they'd be a good idea to use so people cant see the bottom card. He wasnt sold, but every said it was a good idea so we started using them.
Now, if he's setting the deck, cut cards obviously wont help. And even if you let someone else cut, a good cheater can crimp a deck and make you cut it exactly where he wants you to. (Do a google search for Neocheating, you'll learn alot.) Just talk to some of the other regulars and watch him. Set up some sort of signal, and if you see something suspicious, and everyone gives the signal, call bullshit. Then decide if you want him to leave or if you want to get a bat.
Hope this helps.
Brian

[mightywhitey125]

to piper tim.... I've seen this person shuffle the cards, do a few weird cuts... give the cards to snother person to cut, get the cards back and shuffle them up and the first 4 cards off the deck are AA's. That's why i don't think it's a stretch for him to give 2 specific hands as well an A on the flop, i don't see that as outta his league.

To hithard69... other regulars have noticed strange hands with him as well, so a hand signal sounds like a good idea... thank you for the input

[AgentBishop]

I say just make a big deal about cutting the deck. Use the "Frech cut" or something. That should stop him or force him to do something stupid that you will clearly see. But if you really want to catch him you need to set him up to make a stupid move. Realize that he needs to nullify the cut in order to deal the stacked deck. To do that he needs to either crimp the bottom card, which you won't see unless you pick up the deck and examine it, or he needs to crimp the spot in the deck where he wants you to cut to. Turn the deck around and look at the backside before cutting and look for a crimp. Pick up the deck and bring it closer to you and look for a bottom crimp. Come up with a way to place the two piles so that he needs to do more than just complete then shift. Try turning the deck around before cutting. He will need to turn it BACK around to find a bottom crimp. Also, you will need to look for cards that stand out from a side view. They will either have a little nick in a few cards or a few cards will be lighter in color. That is a few basic ways he could be cheating. There are numerous ways he could use his magic skills to cheat.

[Lottery Larry]

"This happens ONLY when he is dealing, doesn't offer a cut, or false cuts the deck (someone will cut the deck, and he'll put the top back on the top)"

Stop this RIGHT NOW! Do NOT let him shuffle his own deck! How simple do you want it to be? Jeeshh...

[Lottery Larry]

" a good cheater can crimp a deck and make you cut it exactly where he wants you to. (Do a google search for Neocheating, you'll learn alot.)"

Not if you cut it properly, he can't. I read this somewhere, use this method myself for cutting cards:

Cut the deck into three or four piles, of different sizes, then pick them back up again in a different order so you bury the original top and bottom card within the deck. Then hand it back to the dealer and only let him deal, not shuffle or cut or anything else.

With a little practice, this became simple and quick for me to do. I'd be happy to take on any magician with this method.