Stu Unger like reads

arod15 · #1 05-03-2005, 01:01 PM

Stu Unger, perhaps the greatest holdem player of all time, certainly the most gifted Gin rummy player of all time. And a notorious card counter. He once counted the last three decks of an 8 deck shoe without one mistake! Do you think his great ability in holdem was due to a remarkable mathamtically system were he could pinpoint you to a hand. I know it sounds absurd, but again this guy counted the last three decks of an 8 deck shoe flawlessly. Was he so genious that he had his own system?

ZBTHorton · #2 05-03-2005, 01:02 PM

System of what?

jojobinks · #3 05-03-2005, 01:29 PM

maybe...

maybe he could tell, based on his hole cards, what your hole cards were. maybe, based on the flop and his hole cards, he could figure out which 2 of the 46 remaining cards you had.

that would be a pretty sweet use of his card-counting abilities.

TheShootah · #4 05-03-2005, 01:38 PM

Hahahaha...I was gonna post this myself but the poster seems too nice and naive for me to rip into. I tend to think that some of the things about Stu got twisted up from his death, turning him into some kind of legend. I am sure he was an awesome, awesome card player, and easily the best Gin player ever, but it seems to me at least, that some of this crap gets spun up into the things of legend. I am pretty sure he was just good at reading, and that he could narrow it down from there. I am sure it helped that he probably raised about 300% of the hands he played, and he had an awesome image. He could pretty much put people on great hands when they played back at him.

-Skeme- · #5 05-03-2005, 02:24 PM

LOL

Howard Treesong · #6 05-03-2005, 02:31 PM

There's little doubt that some of the Ungar material has become larger over the course of time. But read Philly's article about the hand Mansour and Stu played during a series of $50,000 freezeouts. If true, it's pretty impressive. Link here:
http://cardplayer.com/poker_magazine...30&m_id=46

dibbs · #7 05-03-2005, 05:53 PM

Few people seem to deny his natural mathematical talent, but I don't think this has as great an effect on his holdem as it would in gin or blackjack.

Supposedly he was quite talented at putting players on hands, which may have to do with a powerful sense of recall. I feel that someone with a very mathematically inclined or near photographic memory will have a very good sense of recall, in the sense that they can process and store many situations quickly and easily and make a correct read based on all they have added up.

His best attribute in holdem however was probably his incredible aggression. If he smelled weakness (something gained from hand reading ability), he would absolutely pound on people. I've read in several places that if you ever got a hand that could beat top pair, you'd probably get doubled up against him. In tourneys this kind of aggression would no doubt make for some big finishes, especially in smaller fields or whatever.

Wonder how accurate the legends are. Anyone seen his DVD movie with Imperioli in it? Looks like it could suck but I am interested none the less.

pyedog · #8 05-04-2005, 02:49 AM

I thought the movie Stuey was pretty terrible. The story was very interesting (but depressing) since I didn't know anything about Ungar before the movie. But it was poorly written, acted and shot. The poker scenes were actually pretty sparse. I think that book about Ungar would probably be a better choice. The movie got 5.9/10 on IMDB.com

I don't understand how his call with ten high can be anything other than horrible. Isn't it ridiculously results-oriented to say that he made a good call? He could only beat like three possible hands. And his opponent could have played countless other hands in the exact same way, and been just as nervous bluffing at the end (for example with A-high). What a ridiculous anecdote. If anything it sounds like one of the worst calls of all time that just happened to be one of the luckiest.

-Skeme- · #9 05-04-2005, 02:49 AM

The DVD is not as bad as people make it out to be. It's just not very poker oriented. It's basically him explaining his life story.. it deals more with his drug abuse than poker talent. It's worth the rental.

-Skeme- · #10 05-04-2005, 02:51 AM

Lol. Yes, a man notorious for his expert hand reading abilities CALLS OUT the hand the guy has after playing with him several times before, shows an equally terrible hand that happens to have his opponent's hand crushed, and he was just lucky.