Too agressive with flush?

IGMorton · #1 04-29-2005, 11:11 PM

Lot of lags at the table... it had been down to 2 players just 5 minutes prior. then the heads-up lag sharks swarmed in but table quickly filled back up.

flop bet... was my 3 bet worth while? i didn't get anyone to fold, but with middle pair and 11 outs it seemed almost like a value bet.

river bet... was the 3-bet a valet value play? i figured small chance anyone had the 4th nine and paired a board card. pocket jacks or dueces were my only fear.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
hero calls, 3 folds, CO raises, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold, hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, hero bets, CO raises, Button folds, SB calls, hero 3-bets, CO caps, SB calls, hero calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, hero bets, CO raises, SB calls, hero 3-bets, CO calls, SB calls.

River: (19.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, hero bets, CO calls, SB raises, hero 3-bets, CO calls, SB caps, hero calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 31.50 BB

mtdoak · #2 04-29-2005, 11:14 PM

I wouldn't be too afraid of the boat, esp. with one 9 in my hand. That being said, I 3 bet here with the nut flush everytime. If he's boated up, he's getting paid off. Theres just too many hands you beat and not enough that beat you.

New001 · #3 04-29-2005, 11:14 PM

SB kept calling 2 bets at a time until the board paired, and he check/raised on the river. I probably just call his raise and not 3-bet.

Kyriefurro · #4 04-30-2005, 02:34 AM

A good read on SB would make your decision easier here.

With out one, you have to rely on the math. Mathematically, the odds of your nut-flush going down to a boat are fairly small, even with the board paird like it is. So your 3-bet on the river should be +EV, especially with a third caller coming along for the ride (someone correct me if I'm wrong here). SB's cap mean you're probably toast, but you couldn't know he was going to cap it when you made the 3-bet, and without that foresight, the 3-bet is correct.

If I had to guess, I think SB is a passive player with 22 in the hole. He was planning to check-raise the flop, but chickened out when he saw that you and CO were still throwing chips...probably was afraid of a bigger set, or was scared that the flush would beat him. Then when he filled up he found his spine and came after you. But that's just a guess [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Azhrarn · #5 04-30-2005, 03:13 AM

Pre-flop, I usually raise this, but I don't think limping is terrible.

Flop is great. With the nut flush draw, middle pair and an overcard against two opponents, you're almost always getting value on raise and reraises.

River... Eh, call me conservative, but I'm worried about SB suddenly coming to life with a checkraise after all of the action on previous streets. Even the worst hand-readers should be thinking flush after the turn action. I would just call the checkraise.

purnell · #6 04-30-2005, 03:47 AM

Looks OK too me. Preflop is a raise UTG for me most of the time, as I want to make AT, AJ, and small pairs fold.

rmarotti · #7 04-30-2005, 03:55 AM

Only if you hate money.

New001 · #8 04-30-2005, 03:59 AM

You don't think calling 2 cold twice each on the flop and turn and a check/raise when the board pairs looks like a set/boat?

rmarotti · #9 04-30-2005, 04:00 AM

Not any more than it looks like a fishy way to play a pair then freak out when it trips up.

Less, in fact.

New001 · #10 04-30-2005, 04:02 AM

I wish my fish played this way with a pair.