all ins with 4 left

[sngplayer]

Hi all

first post here. I have read through the forum a bit.

I am playing low buy-in SNG tourneys at Stars ($10 - $30). I am having a bit of a problem, which is exemplified by the hand I just came from.

4 left, player X has 7500 stack, I have 3200. Blinds are 75/150. I get QQ on the button. Player X flat calls UTG. I raise to 600, X calls, others drop

Flop

6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Player X bets 300.

Now... I have been losing a hell of a lot of money by going all in here. I only do this when I feel I have a decent read on my opponent. The trouble is that 1) I think I have a distorted view of how far ahead I am in this situation and 2) I think that optimal sng play must be different than optimal ring game play in this situation, given a variety of hands that my opponent could have. What is your move here, if you thought that your opponent does not have a higher pp than QQ?

Needless to say, I go all in, he calls, the turn brings a 6 and he eventually shows me A6.

I am not a conspiracy theorist. I do understand that if I get my money in with by far the best of it and lose, that is just the game. What I want to know is this. When there are 4 left, will players always just call here and if the board pairs on the turn, they can get away from the hand? I feel I have a bit of a ring-player mentality, and that I need to make 100% sure I get that third place under my belt before going all in when I think I have the best of it at that moment.

Any help with this SNG finesse would be appreciated.

sng

[spentrent]

1) Someone is going to flame you to death when he sees that your very first post is a bad beat post. You have been warned.

2) QQ on a rag board is BUTTA. You know that.

[sngplayer]

Hi

Well thanks for the warning, but I tried to make it clear that it's not the bad beat part of this that is bugging me. As I mentioned, I know that when I get my money in with by far the best of it, losing is just a part of the game . My question is whether you go all in when there are 4 players left. Is there any truth in the idea that you should not do so because in an SNG, the point is only to finish IN THE MONEY. If you do not finish in the money, especially if you went all in and were called, then you have not played correctly. Would any of the better sng players here avoid losing their stack here against a guy who you KNOW will call any bet you make, just because it's better to be wrong and still alive than right and out?

Thanks again for the warning. Yes, I know QQ vs. rags is the bomb [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[spentrent]

If you are all-in vs an opponent who has only 5 outs with two cards to come, you have played like a champion, and you should celebrate when you are called by that fool. Win this pot -- which you will exactly 12,000% of the time -- and you have a great shot at that 5 to 1 payday for first place.

If one of those 5 outs pops up, recall the words of the great philosopher Kurtis Blow: "These are the breaks."

And dance to those breaks, because you have earned plenty of Sklansky Bucks, redeemable for hats and chips at the Great Poker Room In The Sky.

And, seriously, that was a bad beat post.

[syka16]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Someone is going to flame you to death when he sees that your very first post is a bad beat post. You have been warned.

2) QQ on a rag board is BUTTA. You know that.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol it's a bad beat post mixed with a should I risk a bad beat on the bubble... which is a good topic

[sngplayer]

lol... okay, I get the message. How it was a bad beat post when I expressly said that I was not worried about the bad beat aspect of it is not clear to me, but I am not very smart and I tend to forget things as a result of heavy cannabis use as a youngster.

So you are saying that there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE between your strategy for winning money at an sng table, which involves finishing ITM, vs. your strategy at a ring game, at which you can always rebuy and get your money back from a poor caller.

Seriously, thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your opinion, even about the bad beat aspect of the post.

[sngplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
lol it's a bad beat post mixed with a should I risk a bad beat on the bubble... which is a good topic

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi

Yes, that is the aspect that I am interested in. Now I have to go back to my original post and check whether I didn't write something about not being concerned about the bad beat aspect since that's poker and getting your money in with the best of it is generally why we play.

Can anyone comment on this aspect of it - risking the bad beat on the bubble vs. ensuring your ITM finish before doing so?

[syka16]

There are times when you should pass up on small advantages in SNGs which is can be confusing for ring players to understand at first. At times, this occurs on the bubble. example: suppose you're one of two short stacks and second is 2 double ups away. you would rather take a coinflip against the shortstack because doing so will get you ITM.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone comment on this aspect of it - risking the bad beat on the bubble vs. ensuring your ITM finish before doing so?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a good topic and don't be offended by me, since I really am a moron just grinding and learning the low stakes games.

Something to consider is "how favored am I?" Against 5 outs with two to come, you are the lord of poker. However, if you're facing a coin flip if you call a bet -- maybe you've got 55 and someone is all-in who will have two big cards most of the time -- then you might safely give up a small edge now if you'll have a better edge by, say, pushing the next hand.

[sngplayer]

Ok thanks, that makes sense. The situation you describe obviously comes up a lot at the low buy-in tables, where your 99 is a coin flip against a guy who you KNOW will call with A-picture. I like th idea of waiting in this case.