Lay down KK?

Mini-blind (50c/$1) pot-limit game online.

Chap raises pot in early position (bet to $4). One caller before me, I re-raise it to $15 from mid-late position with KK.
Original raiser re-reraises another $20. Now I'm worried, but I call hoping he's an aggressive guy playing AK.

Flop 4,5,6 all clubs. He bets out about $30 into the pot of around $70. That's half both of our stacks. I sigh inwardly and re-raise all-in. He calls in a micro-second.

He has AA (including the club) and I am toast.

I just cannot decide if I simply had no choice here, or if I should have laid down after he re-re-raised pre-flop or bet the flop. I *have* been played back at like this by people with AK before, but on the whole I guess his actions screamed AA didn't they?

Any thoughts from experienced big-bet players? Did this hand simply play itself, or did I mess up?

I would play it like you did until the flop hits and he bets into you with that 30$. Its an obvious AA play with A of clubs. If i had KK with a club i would been tempted tho..but a fold on that bet with that flop should be done

[perfidious]

Bill,

You said you were hoping your opponent had A-K; in this situation, knowledge of one's opponent is critical.

Last week, I was playing in a supersatellite at Foxwoods
and open-raised with K-K, and it was passed to the player
across from me. Though we'd never played together before, I knew he was an excellent player capable of making tricky, aggressive moves, so when he moved in, I thought briefly and called, to find him with pocket nines.

IMO, there's no single answer to your question, but I'd tend to dump the kings here against a good player. Facing someone I perceived as weaker, I might call.(maybe!!) Even there, I don't really think it's wrong in the long term.

perfidious

Thanks for responses so far.
perfidious, you're right that the identity of the player is important. There are players on the site I play against whom I would have played it that way with great confidence, and others against whom I would have laid down to the second preflop raise. Unfortunately, this guy was completely new to me... I just didn't feel able to put down the Kings at the time, but with hindsight I keep thinking maybe I should have done. Much of the play at that site is characterised by weakness and risk-aversion, and there probably aren't many players who would re-raise my $15 raise with anything other than AA.

[TAFKAn]

Bill, a common problem for many limit players who start off at PL or NL is the issue of when to call. In limit hold'em the rule is: when in doubt call. It's so easy to be aggressive and push people around in limit hold'em that beginners, psychos, experts, and fools alike will try to check-raise the turn with nothing or over-play their hand.

In big bet hold'em, the rule of thumb to follow is this: ASSUME EVERYONE IS A PUSSY UNTIL SHOWN OTHERWISE.

If you don't know the player and he's acting like he has the nuts, assume he has it until you see him make a crazy play without the nuts. The beauty of this rule is that if he's making wild dangerous plays with marginal hands, you will soon find out and have a great chance of busting him later. If he's the usual, gutless, tight-ass big bet player, you will lose your stack if you call him down and then once you realize he never makes any moves, you need the jaws of life to get your chips back out his stack.

Play it safe, assume all your opponents are gutless until proven otherwise. In your case, getting re-re-reraised from out of position means you should fold KK unless you know the guy better.

Thanks for the response Nate. I am inclined to agree with you. The online site where I play is curious - as I said, the majority of players are clueless and weak. But there are a fair number of very strong and aggressive Scandinavians too. Ah well, live and learn.

I am struggling to work out where I fit on the scale between 'gutless/tightass pussy' and 'wild dangerous'. I suspect I am kind of in the middle. I only rarely make big bluffs on the end, but I do push hard on the flop and turn, with and without a hand.

Which do you think is worse Nate, the pussy or the wildman approach? I suspect both extremes will lose overall. I love the pussies 'cause they never charge you when they have a hand, and allow you to draw against them, and I love the wildmen 'cause you just wait for the nuts or near-nuts against them.