Getting away from good but not great hands at the PArty $25NL

[partygirluk]

Is impossible, without a good read.

Discuss.

[Brian462]

I pretty much agree. The stacks are too small and the players too unpredictable to fold anything good.

[UOPokerPlayer]

Be more specific. Overpairs? TPTK? I can lay these down, but I do need a good read. All of poker is about a read though. If we don't have reads, we don't know what our opponent's actions mean and we can't act accordingly. I usually give the opponent the benefit of the doubt the first and sometimes second time unless I observe him.

[TrailofTears]

I think the idea is that it is hard to get a read on livestock lined up for the slaughter. When a push could mean any two cards at any time (or nearly so), it is difficult to let go of a hand that is better than, say, 80% of villain's possible holdings.

-Trail

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
When a push could mean any two cards at any time (or nearly so), it is difficult to let go of a hand that is better than, say, 80% of villain's possible holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]

Difficult because it's wrong. Although I rarely think that the 80% figure usually holds.

[TrailofTears]

Yes, it is wrong at this level, and that is what I mean. At a higher stakes online game, calling a push might require your hand to be the nuts or close to it.

[ QUOTE ]
Although I rarely think that the 80% figure usually holds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am going to ask you what you meant by this xorb, because that figure was a random number coming from me. I just meant that you can be looser with your calls at lower levels than at higher levels (80% being loose, 95% being tighter).

Thanks.

-Trail

[xorbie]

I'm saying that TPTK is not good 80% of the time against a push, even at 25NL. It definetely depends on the opponent, table texture, the hand itself, your image, etc.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Is impossible, without a good read.

Discuss.

[/ QUOTE ]
On the contrary, I think it is much easier to get away from good, but not great hands at NL25 than it is at higher stakes. This is because the players are either very passive or maniacs. Against maniacs, you obviously cannot drop it, but that's fine, you shouldn't drop it at higher stakes either against maniacs. But against normal run of the mill opponents at NL25, you can easily ditch good but not great hands against strong aggression because they are simply not aggressive at all with marginal holdings. They don't semi-bluff. They don't re-raise a preflop raiser on a bluff. Etc. I think if you fold one pair hands to a raise every time on NL25, you are not going far off of optimal play.

[TrailofTears]

[ QUOTE ]
Is impossible, without a good read.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is clear that it is impossible to even discuss, until some outlines are made as to what a "good" hand is and what a "great" hand is. And what it means to get away from it (to a raise?, to a push?, to a bet?).

I don't mind a healthy discussion, but I haven't seen two people on here that are talking about the same topic yet.

-Trail