Would you fold KK to reraise on Turn Straight draw board?

JC_Saves · #1 04-18-2005, 09:38 PM

I had KK the hand before this and won a little pot when no one improved to give me any action, couldn't pull off a CR on turn.

Got KK very next hand again. I knew the flop was terrible for me. I CR the flop. Was this a bad play?

Should I have just check/called down from the turn. I knew I was beat when I got reraised on turn.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Button calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, Button folds, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (18.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB

Nfinity · #2 04-18-2005, 09:49 PM

First off, there are worse flops for you.

Flop: Bet out with the intentions of Reraising any raise. Your CR just made everyone more commited to the pot/

Thats all I can see you did wrong. The rest of the hand I would play exactly the same way.

PokerProdigy · #3 04-18-2005, 10:00 PM

This is a tough spot to be in. The check-raise on the flop was probably a great play IF you had some reason to think someone in late position would bet the turn. As it turned out somebody up front bet the turn which is ok for you in terms of pushing pot equity but bad for you in terms of protecting your hand. If you lead and where raised by UTG that would have probably done a better job protecting your hand. The turn is tough because you're probably beat, but the pot is now pretty large, so I'd probably call down from the turn on, because it's a huge mistake to fold the best hand in a large pot.

PokerProdigy · #4 04-18-2005, 10:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The check-raise on the flop was probably a great play IF you had some reason to think someone in late position would bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant the flop [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Nfinity · #5 04-18-2005, 10:14 PM

IMHO for the CR to work here, you have to have optimal reads on most if not all players at the table. Your table would also have to be set up in such a way that your tight players are in EP, and all your loose concentrated in LP. One loose player in EP messes this plan up.

Or am I just being silly?

cold_cash · #6 04-18-2005, 10:34 PM

Bet the flop.

You raised before the flop, what makes you think someone else is going to bet?

Also, when you check and the guy on your left bets, your checkraise just swells the pot and ties everybody to it when you want to be doing the exact opposite.

fluxrad · #7 04-18-2005, 10:37 PM

-- blind post

I think I bet the flop...since I can't answer the question "WHO am I check raising?"

Other than that, your play is fine.

DeathDonkey · #8 04-18-2005, 10:43 PM

I think this is a pretty easy turn fold. Calling the river would be burning a dollar bill.

-DeathDonkey

Nfinity · #9 04-18-2005, 10:50 PM

Hero seems to be absent from the end of the betting, seems he folded by the looks of the pot.

getting 20.5-1 , and I'm relatively safe to assume there will be no raise behind me, I call.

Can somebody crunch the numbers and see how certain(in %) you have to be to fold here, do the math in the post if you would, I wanna learn. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

no1super2001 · #10 04-19-2005, 01:45 AM

grunching... (can we still call it that, or is it tarding?)

First, I do not like the C/R on the flop. It serves little to protect your hand, particularly since UTG bet. Everyone calling his bet will now feel obligated to call one more bet. It may have worked if a late position had been the bettor or UTG 3 bet the pot.

I have learned here the value in not making sneaky or fancy plays. Spending time being tricky is time you are not making a good analysis of your hand and the board, IMO.

It looks like you are beaten, but I hope you called one more in a pot that big.