Garland puts on the rare move...

Garland · #1 04-18-2005, 01:37 AM

How does this line look?

All comments appreciated.

Garland

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (10 handed) converter

UTG ($441.10)
UTG+1 ($554.20)
UTG+2 ($280.20)
MP1 ($288.50)
MP2 ($632.50)
MP3 ($442.50)
CO ($392)
Button ($93.40)
SB ($178)
Garland ($607.80)

Preflop: Garland is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $4, 1 fold, UTG+2 raises to $8, MP1 calls $8, 1 fold, MP3 calls $8, 3 folds, Garland calls $4, UTG calls $4.

Flop: ($42) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Garland checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 bets $14, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, Garland calls $14, UTG folds.

Turn: ($70) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Garland checks, UTG+2 bets $23, Garland raises to $86...

steaknshake925 · #2 04-18-2005, 01:46 AM

what was your read on villain?

joewatch · #3 04-18-2005, 02:20 AM

Well, this is pretty read dependent, but I think you are playing with fire by waiting until the turn to semibluff. I would have preferred leading the flop and reraising to try to represent trip 7. A good alternative would be check-raising the flop.

DrPublo · #4 04-18-2005, 02:27 AM

How would play trip 7s in this spot? You're the BB, you want to make him think you have a somewhat raggedy 7. Play it that way.

The Doc

DoomSlice · #5 04-18-2005, 02:27 AM

I like it, the small turn bet seems like he's asking to be pushed off his hand.

TheWorstPlayer · #6 04-18-2005, 02:39 AM

Are we allowed to say fold preflop? Other than that, it is completely read dependent, IMO. How would he play AA, how would he play AK? How does he think you would play 87s? How likely is he to be moved off of AA? For most people the answer to that last one is "Not very likely" I think.

ThePortuguee · #7 04-18-2005, 02:57 AM

I should say that the first time I read the post I looked at your raise and cringed. I play in lower limits, and I'd half expect to see the Villain come back over the top for his whole stack with 9's full or some obnoxious thing. The more I think about the hand, though, the more I kind of like your play, but I dont think for the same reason that you made it.

Small bets are very weird. They can be big hands trying to be tricky, in this case something like an overpair or maybe very bizarrely played trips or even nines full; they can be cowardly bluffs, or they can be scared bets from pretty good hands like Jacks.

We have to think about UTG+2's motivation, here. He minraised preflop after UTG limped, so it's hard to put him on a hand like AK, AQ, AA-JJ. A hand like that shouldn't be looking to build a pot with a minraise. Instead, a middle pair, maybe a suited connector as high a JQ could be making such a minraise.

So then we think about what he's doing betting small on the flop and turn: it's probably not a bluff. You might make the argument that he's trying to posture someone slowplaying a seven but to me that seems pretty unlikely, especialyl given the draws on board. He's not going to try to pickup that pot with JQ with a small flop bet.

So what can he have? I think it's either a huge hand or a draw. A huge hand, like a full house, wants hands to catch up, and small bets in multi-way pots can build nice, big pots for hands like 6-8, JQd, etc to try to draw out to win, then spew their stack into the middle with the worst of it. Given the range of hands the villain is likely to have with a preflop minraise after a limper, from EP, it could be nines or something like 79c.

Then again, it could also be a draw, trying to build a pot for itself against mutliple players on the flop. Something like JQd, Axd, etc. Might even be a monster draw like T8d or 68d.

In any case, given all that, my thoughts on the turn raise itself are these: I like that it trys to get your opponet to define his hands. Draws will tend to flat call and hope, hands that are killing you will tend to come over the top, bizarre hands not included in the discussion above will probably fold. Fine.

The thing is this: if you've gone that far, if a total blank comes off on the river, say 4c, then I think you need to be prepared to follow through and fire at the river, and you should have that in mind. Im not sure overall how I feel about the play, but I dont really think you're giong to make him fold then and there given his range of hands, so if that's what you're trying to do rethink it. The value of hte raise is to define your opponent's hand and either let you get away from your draw or maybe bluff him off his on a blanked river.

sawseech · #8 04-18-2005, 07:23 PM

it looks like a move
trips would hesitate to chk/call but would definitely lead the turn most of the time
reraising after that is ok and is almost a sure induced lay
chkraising looks like a move and now it's a question of whether he'll lay his pair
i'd wager you got called

TheWorstPlayer · #9 04-18-2005, 07:54 PM

I agree with this, pretty much. I'm not sure about OP, but if I had 87 on this flop, I'm either leading into the PFR or I am check/raising the flop and leading the turn. The way this hand is played, it looks more like diamonds than a 7.

Garland · #10 04-19-2005, 03:48 PM

He folded.

His small bets on the flop and turn were screaming weakness as he probably had just overs, and I'd imagine he'd want to protect a legitimate overpair hand against a flush draw. His bets on the flop and turn screamed "if you have something, please take it away from me". I obliged.

On the flop, I just had to make UTG folds as I don't want to check-raise into the teeth of a real 7. As soon as the coast was clear, I punished UTG+2 for acting so weak.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Garland