OESF Draw Middle pair.....to fast?

nickey009 · #1 04-15-2005, 01:17 AM

I figured I could take it down on the turn with a strong bet but he called me. With only 8 bucks left I figured I'd be putting it in the middle anyway. There's a chance he too is on the flush draw and missed. what do you think? Totally mis-played?

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (8 handed) converter

SB ($5.5)
Hero ($23.75)
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($27.55)
MP1 ($25.3)
MP2 ($14.75)
CO ($26.8)
Button ($55)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1.35) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.75, MP1 calls $0.75, CO calls $0.75, Button calls $0.75, Hero raises to $5, UTG folds, MP1 folds, CO calls $4.25, Button folds.

Turn: ($13.60) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $10, CO calls $10.

River: ($33.60) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $8, CO calls $8.

Final Pot: $49.60

TheIrishThug · #2 04-15-2005, 01:31 AM

u have two clashing problems here. u r drawing so u don't want to invest too much and there are lots of ppl trying to sneak in with u. u need to get the extra ppl out, so u have to raise, maybe even bet out at the start.

the pot is big by the turn, so if u r betting u have to bet big. the bet on the river isn't going to get u anywhere, what would he have been calling with that he will fold at this point?

steaknshake925 · #3 04-15-2005, 02:09 AM

i like just callin because you have pretty excellent odds, or reraising allin on the flop. actually i'd probly reraise allin here cuz i like to gamb000l. when u raise anything less than an allin it puts you in a real awkward spot on the turn when a blank falls and youre OOP.

the way the hand went, i push the turn.

i think by the river the pot is too big for an $8 bluff to work often enough to be profitable. also, if you put villain on another draw, why not just check it thru since you do have a pair and youre beating missed draws anyway.

nickey009 · #4 04-15-2005, 02:15 AM

Good point about the missed draws. I totally screwed the river. I guess checking the turn is the thing to do? Incidently....this is PL so no All-in on the flop.

steaknshake925 · #5 04-15-2005, 02:23 AM

oops, i didnt see the part about PL. in that case probably just call the flop.

given ur raise and that its PL, i think checking the turn is good. ur gonna see a free card a good chunk of the time, and if villain bets you can be pretty comfortable CRing allin. ya, i'd say i like checking turn better than leading.

kurto · #6 04-15-2005, 02:39 AM

Am I the only one who doesn't think this is one to go nuts on?

Though you've got some powerful draws, not a single one of them is close to the nuts.

Its conceivable that on the flop, someone already has the straight. If a J hits, he's going to be stacked by anyone with a Q. AND if there's anyone else in with a flush draw, they're likely to have a better one then he does.

to top it off, the player is out of position and, whether he hits or not, is forced to continue betting away since he can't likely check after his flop aggression.

I'd like this much better if he was in position.

I don't know if I'm just being weak here or what.

With that being said... once the flop failed... and you bet again, you're basically comitting yourself to the hand even if you miss. For all he knows, the villain could be slowplaying a monster and hero could be drawing dead.

I would be surprised if the hero won this.

nickey009 · #7 04-15-2005, 02:58 AM

If I hit the straight flush it's the nuts! Yes, you are correct that I have a ton of less than great draws here. You are also correct when you say that I way over played this. Kinda' what I was thinking after my check/raise failed on the flop. Villian turned over TJ. Could have definetly saved 8 bucks on the river. Would anyone else call that flop bet if you were the villian?

steaknshake925 · #8 04-15-2005, 03:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Would anyone else call that flop bet if you were the villian?

[/ QUOTE ]

if i were villain i'd call, but also consider pushing. but probly end up callin.

and, i don't think you WAY overplayed this. while u didnt have an insane monster draw its still a hand i'd feel comfortable playin a big pot with. besides the river (and checking the turn may have been better as is callin the flop, but those were kinda close), i think you played this fine.

nickey009 · #9 04-15-2005, 11:25 AM

Wanted to bump this up to see if anyone else had comments. Thanks.

btetreau · #10 04-15-2005, 11:52 AM

I like the raise on the flop to push out the weak draws or small pairs, however chances are good at this limit on PP that you won't be able to push out people with a J or a high flush draw, so I'd be wary of that if you hit a hand and it's not the SF.

That being said, the flop bet worked well for ya and I like how you maintained control with the pot-ish bet on the turn, seeing as how he called the small flop bet instead of raising - someone who had already made a hand by that point (set, straight, maybe even 2-pair) would probably raise to push people out.

As soon as your turn bet is called, if you don't hit on the river it is a definite check/fold seeing as how small your stack is by that point.