KK against a good multitabling TAG

mr pink · #1 04-15-2005, 01:03 AM

primary villain is a TAG over 2400 hands - good stats of 17/7/2.6 - he's a thinker

other 2 are fishy

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, MP2 caps, CO calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, MP2 raises, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises

comments on flop and turn? i considered check/raising the flop but decided against it, maybe you can tell me why and if my reasoning makes any sense.

admiralfluff · #2 04-15-2005, 01:11 AM

ughh. What does a 17/7 cap here with that you are ahead of? JJ, and AK. Maybe TT. I wouldn't checkraise at all in this hand. I might bet the flop to try and get him to pay with AK, but once he raises the flop I think check/call. He may keep betting with AK, but will likely fold to your c/r. The only time this line works is when he has JJ, but he has AA, KK, QQ, or AQs more often than JJ here (don't know if you can throw in TT).

mr pink · #3 04-15-2005, 01:18 AM

yeah i think i'm ahead of JJ and AK and possibly TT - i wasn't worried about trip queens cause i didn't think he'd cap with AQs, although it is a possibility because of the 2 fish involved. it was also somewhat more unlikely because he raised the flop.

just for clarification - i definitely did not want him to call the check/raise

Willluck · #4 04-15-2005, 01:23 AM

most TAGs raise this flop w/ TT, JJ, AK...but...I don't know how many TAGs cap PF with TT or JJ maybe QQ or AA probably since he is a tag it is more likely he has one of these, maybe he has AKs but that is less likely than AA. After he raises you, ya should call down.

mr pink · #5 04-15-2005, 01:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
most TAGs raise this flop w/ TT, JJ, AK...but...I don't know how many TAGs cap PF with TT or JJ maybe QQ or AA probably since he is a tag it is more likely he has one of these, maybe he has AKs but that is less likely than AA. After he raises you, ya should call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

so basically you're saying that out of the hands that cap preflop AND raise the flop... you can narrow the range down to AA, KK, AK, JJ, and TT?

shant · #6 04-15-2005, 01:28 AM

I don't see a thinking TAG putting you on a Q here and he'll probably fold what you beat and call down what you don't.

This is a great play against a rock who would fold AA though.

PokerBob · #7 04-15-2005, 01:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
primary villain is a TAG over 2400 hands - good stats of 17/7/2.6 - he's a thinker

other 2 are fishy

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, MP2 caps, CO calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, MP2 raises, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises

comments on flop and turn? i considered check/raising the flop but decided against it, maybe you can tell me why and if my reasoning makes any sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought that initially I liked it, but now I hate it. After you c/r the turn, what does he pay you with? Nothing that you beat. He's a thinker. He knows a turn c/r is a STRONG move. MAYBE he folds KK, but I doubt it. What if he 3-bets you? He would do that with the other KK just as easily as he would with AA. Are you willing to let it go to a turn 3-bet? Ugh. IMO this is FPS.

mr pink · #8 04-15-2005, 01:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see a thinking TAG putting you on a Q here and he'll probably fold what you beat and call down what you don't.

This is a great play against a rock who would fold AA though.

[/ QUOTE ]

i wouldnt mind seeing him fold AK here. i also felt that if he does have AA, this was my only shot to move him off it.

admiralfluff · #9 04-15-2005, 01:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
just for clarification - i definitely did not want him to call the check/raise

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see any hand here that he could INCORRECTLY fold to a check raise, so if you don't want him to call, I don't think you want to make the check raise.

After the ckeckraise, he might be able to make a call with AK getting implied odds. If you just bet into him though, he couldn't correctly call with AK.

I see him folding TT or JJ here sometimes, folding AK a lot, 3-betting with any Q, and calling down with AA. If you just called the bet, he would likely bet again on river if checked to (I would do this if I didn't think he would cap TT) or maybe call a bet with JJ,TT, and AA on the river. I would probably bet into him on the river if I think he caps TT here.

rmarotti · #10 04-15-2005, 01:34 AM

I think if a TAG know mister pink he'll consider layng down AA here. Am I way off?

edit: by "know mr. pink" I don't mean they've been out for coffee several times, I just mean the TAG is aware that mp is a good player.