Should SNG newbies skip the 5+1's ?

[Blarg]

I just started playing SNG's in any quantity at the beginning of this month. I read through Aleomagus's guide, rewrote it in my own words several times to try to incorporate it better into my brain and play style, and am reading these forums to try to learn to play them better. But I'm still a raw newbie and want to learn cheaply, if possible.

Normally I would take it for granted that you want to risk as little as possible when learning a new poker game, but the rake at Party 5+1's is the same as the 10+1's, making it effectively twice as costly in tourney fees.

So I'm wondering if it isn't -EV to learn to play SNG's on the 5+1's just because of the high hit you take from those fees compared to the 10+1's. I know it's probably impossible to say for sure whether I'll come out ahead playing the next step up instead of the lower one, but what would you recommend the average person do?

In case it might help to judge my question any better, here's some info on my SNG play. I've played 128 SNG's since the beginning of this month, and I'm about 70 bucks behind, including half a dozen 10_1's. I'm just beginning SNG's though, and my numbers are small, so I don't think those numbers provide a complete diagnosis of my play. Especially since I seem to have learned a lot in this past week or so and am already playing much better.

But what would you guys advise?

[cow_phunk]

if you're not comfortable moving up, find a site w/ 5 + .5 tables. there's no point paying a 20% rake.

[splashpot]

I say if you have the bankroll for 10+1, go for it. They're close, if not the same difficulty as the 5+1s.

[Scuba Chuck]

Blarg, what other forum section are you coming from? You have 2,000+ posts.

Next, if you were just playing your first few games EVER, I would recommend playing the play money games until you got used to it. If you can place in the top 4 in the play money 60-80% of the time, I'm pretty sure you're ready for the real money. In fact, if you can place (1-3) 50% of the time with play money, you're probably ready for real money.

Now that you are where you are, there's two answers to your questions:

1) Play the $5+1s. You'll lose less while you learn. You'll also win less as the vig is 20%. Recognize that you aren't going to build a bankroll here. Accept that you are giving away money (most likely), but treading water or slightly gaining money, bankroll wise, is a sign that you are probably capable of moving to the $10+1s.

It has generally been a recommendation to not play the $5+1s on this forum. AleoMagus recently suggested otherwise. See thread

2) Play the $10+1s. Skip the lower levels. Start with a bigger bankroll. There is a big difference between play money and real money, REAL MONEY. But yet again, the fish play with $11 the same way they do for $0. At least on the $10+1s, you'll know that you're a winning player by watching your bankroll rise.

Being a newbie has it's growing pains. Particularly in the bankroll area.

Scuba

[BradleyT]

What's your BR?

[GtrHtr]

Consider playing on UB or PS. Both have a 10% rake for the lower limit SnGs although the competition is (seems) tougher. Play the UB 5.50's for a month or 2 at your current pace and your SnG game will improve dramatically.

[McBandit]

You are right that the rake at the $5s is steep, but they are not -EV if you play well. I sometimes drop down to the 5s when I have a bad stretch in the 20s and 30s just to regroup mentally. They 5s can definately be beaten for money, I was getting a 40% return on investment even with the heavy rake. Thhe players are definately the softest lineup you can find in the party SNGs, but they are only a little bit worse than the 10+1 players. I think it would be a good place to work on your game if you are learning and/or have a small bankroll. A bad run at the $5+1s costs only like $50-100 bucks which is gentle on a small bankroll. If bankroll size is not an issue, I would go straight to the 10+1s (you should have $300-400 to start...if you lose that you are likely making fundamental mistakes).

Good luck,
Mcbandit

[Scuba Chuck]

Recognize that PS and UB is a different game than party's due to the difference in starting stacks. That's been the real drawback to starting there. There's more "game" to learn.

[allintuit]

That's why I like Paradise.

[GtrHtr]

I think we agree to a point. Part of my reply was concerning his desire to become "better" at SnG's. I think the competition and the structure at both PS and UB will do that.