Royal 9-A... River Bet (INCLUDES CONTENT!)

DavidC · #1 04-10-2005, 08:57 AM

You'll be disappointed with the subject line vs the action, but there will be discussion after the hand, so please read.

The guys to my left are: LPP, LAA, LPP (bisonbison standards), the BB is TPP.

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Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) converter

MP1 ($73.75)
MP2 ($23.2)
CO ($59.55)
Button ($38.32)
SB ($52.7)
BB ($23.15)
UTG ($31.7)
Hero ($21.25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.35) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets $3, Hero calls $3, MP1 folds, CO folds, Button folds.

Turn: ($7.35) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $3, Hero raises to $6, BB calls $3.

River: ($19.35) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $5, BB folds.

Final Pot: $24.35

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Preflop:
What do you guys think of the limp here?

Flop:
I call because I have a buttload of outs here, and I'd like to build the pot. I realize that if I go all-in, I'm going to be in the lead against anyone but a set. I also realize that no one but a set will call me. I also realize that a big raise will leave me with half my stack in the middle and no place to go on the turn, or with a set putting me all in on the flop. Good call?

Turn:
With such a large bet on the flop on a draw heavy board, I assume that I'm against a set here. He's naturally afraid of a flush, since they're all up on the board and I smooth called a massive bet. He therefore leads with a small bet. I appologize for minraising even after reprimanding myself for it in another post, but I felt that this time it was a good idea, because I totally want to get this guy to make his boat, and I know that he'll pay a bit for it in an effort to break me. I make it $3 to him in a $16 pot, so he that he has perceived odds to call with his set, even though he's drawing dead.

If we hit another heart and he has the A or something like that (he was semibluffing) then I'm happy about that too.

Good raise? Maybe a little more because he can still afford it due to pot/implied odds? 10/46 = 3.6:1 odds, so I guess I could have raised it to maybe half the pot and still given him correct implied odds (3:1 makes him a dog to call but I've still got cash left). Therefore the correct bet would have been: $9?

I suppose a reason to minraise this (a legitimate one) would be that he could have two pair, and therefore would require higher odds from the pot and my stack to make his call.

River:
In first position, no bet, definitely. Let him think I have a baby and let him bluff. In last position, I must bet, since he didn't and I have the nuts. However, the advantage to this bet, even when not called, is that he doesn't see my hand. Therefore he won't realize that I called with such a good draw, and he'll hopefully be inclined to make larger bets at me in the future, thinking I'll call with worse hands than I did (i.e. FFs rather than FFOESDs). If possible, I want him to call, so I bet 1/4 pot, but even if he did have 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] he's not calling it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Now, if this guy was a 2+2er, he now knows what I have, but I'd like to know what you guys think of how I played it.

Tilt · #2 04-10-2005, 09:01 AM

David, I really think you need to raise that flop. Its very tough to build a pot for such a monster draw if you don't do it before the board gets scary. Also, with position, you may get a free or at least cheap river card if you do so.

DavidC · #3 04-10-2005, 09:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
David, I really think you need to raise that flop. Its very tough to build a pot for such a monster draw if you don't do it before the board gets scary. Also, with position, you may get a free or at least cheap river card if you do so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool. I just read this but I'll consider it. I'm a little nervous about what he may have after such a large bet on the flop. If he has a set or top two (or top and bottom), then I don't think he's going to let me get away with the raise. He shouldn't, anyways. I didn't raise pf so it's unlikely that I have top or middle set. If he's got the bottom, that really narrows down what I may have.

However, what you said about tying them to a pot before the board gets scary is a good thing. I have to think about it definitely.

DavidC · #4 04-10-2005, 09:49 AM

Any comments on the turn/river?

tbach24 · #5 04-10-2005, 09:42 AM

Push the flop hard. Right now you're a coinflip with a set, however if you miss the turn, you're behind top pair so you wanna get some money in now when you're likely good or close to it. Also, this may buy you a free card.

DavidC · #6 04-10-2005, 09:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Push the flop hard. Right now you're a coinflip with a set, however if you miss the turn, you're behind top pair so you wanna get some money in now when you're likely good or close to it. Also, this may buy you a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know... if he pushes after I push hard, then I must call due to pot odds.

I won't get anyone else in the pot with me, who will actually make it a +EV call against a set.

The free card is attractive, but it's also transparent unless I hit a straight.

My problem is that i don't want to put $30 into a $4 pot with a coinflip weighted the wrong way. That $4 in the pot may be enough to commit me even with a crappy flip, but I just don't feel comfortable doing this.

I don't know the precise equity vs a set here, I just know that it's not in my favour. I'll pokerstove it to see if that helps my decision.

--Dave.

DavidC · #7 04-10-2005, 09:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Push the flop hard. Right now you're a coinflip with a set, however if you miss the turn, you're behind top pair so you wanna get some money in now when you're likely good or close to it. Also, this may buy you a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I raise, how much do I raise?

Also, any comments on the turn/river?

tbach24 · #8 04-10-2005, 10:01 AM

Make it like 8-10 to go. I might even push.

DavidC · #9 04-10-2005, 10:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Make it like 8-10 to go. I might even push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm obviously a little nervous about putting in 8 to 10, because I don't want to get 1/3 half my stack in there and then get hung out to dry on a blank turn.

If I push, I COULD get 2 pr to call. That would be sweet.

tbach24 · #10 04-10-2005, 10:09 AM

Yeah pushing is the best.