Got read the riot act for this one 200NL 3/5

fimbulwinter · #1 04-10-2005, 04:44 AM

blinds 3/5
MP1 is tight and weak, not dangerous at all
MP3 flat out sucks

preflop:
MP1 (~600) raises to 15, MP2 (~400) calls, I call (700) with A4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on CO, blinds fold.

flop (50): 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
MP1 bets 25, MP3 calls, I make it $90, MP1 folds, MP3 calls.

turn (255): 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
check, check

river (255): 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
check, I bet 300, he calls

move obviously stolen from limit poker; acceptable or not?

fim

TheWorstPlayer · #2 04-10-2005, 04:51 AM

Ni han, sir. He's probably raising AK-AT/AA-TT, possibly a bit wider, right? You are ahead of a large portion of that hand range on the flop so raise it up (and that flop bet was WEAK). Once MP3 calls your raise, you have to assume he has at least TPTK so you check behind on the turn. Then you suck out like the luckbox that you are and value bet his two pair or top pair. Nicely played all around. The only debate is probably going to be around the preflop call, but with position, a weak raiser, and deep stacks, I think it is 100% fine.

soah · #3 04-10-2005, 04:52 AM

MP3's play really sucks.

TheWorstPlayer · #4 04-10-2005, 04:56 AM

Yes. This hand shows why MP3 has to raise or fold on the flop. Didn't Ray Zee have some great line to Bruiser about the fastest way to go broke being betting a little and calling a lot? Nicely done, MP3.

fimbulwinter · #5 04-10-2005, 04:59 AM

with the exception of the river i can see a good player playing a set like this.

and yes, his play did really, really suck. The posthand analysis was gold.

fim

BobboFitos · #6 04-10-2005, 05:03 AM

Im not as thrilled with this as the others are

If you read PFR's bet as weak, why raise it up? Better hands are not folding the flop and you dont need to punish a 3 out draw.

If you say MP3 is sucky, I take it the sucky type who calls and checks alot more then raising and folding. So why raise? If he has a top pair esque hand (alot more likely on this board given only 56 or 89 draws there) you are behind and he will call you.

If you flatcall PFR might freeze up on turn (actually, most would anyways, not fire 2nd barrell into TWO people) and MP3 is sucky so will check (? This is my leap of faith) if MP3 would bet here, and more than 65 then I lik your raise, but anyways you coud still see the river for the initial 25.

Also, with 3 flush / bottom pair taking a card ending action at 4-1 seems fine, especially considering depth of stacks.

You asked though
[ QUOTE ]
move obviously stolen from limit poker; acceptable or not?

[/ QUOTE ]

and it is, but I dont know if raising the flop is better then calling. But I think it's more pos EV then folding =)

edit - just noticed 68 for the double belly buster too.unlikely though. but still should mention it.

TheWorstPlayer · #7 04-10-2005, 05:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
with the exception of the river i can see a good player playing a set like this.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why wouldn't a good player bet the turn with a set? With his stack, he should have no problem getting it all in on the river by betting $150/$150 or $100/$200. It's unlikely you are just going to fold the turn after raising the flop, right? And you could have been raising a draw that he should protect himself against on the turn, in any case. No?

fimbulwinter · #8 04-10-2005, 05:04 AM

what about the size of the flop raise? my standard 3x would be $75 which felt too callable, and PSR would be (i think) $150 which felt like overkill. maybe 100-125 in the future or no?

fim

BobboFitos · #9 04-10-2005, 05:05 AM

another thing I wanted to add:

actually, given your read of PFR I *CAN* see him folding better hands to the flop raise, but my main concern is nothim sticking it, it's that MP3 (guy in middle) will have made hand much more often then draw, in which case it pays to draw vs him and not isolate a (worse) made hand vs calling station (which is how I read him as "weak")

if that is incorrect the situation changes

BobboFitos · #10 04-10-2005, 05:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
what about the size of the flop raise? my standard 3x would be $75 which felt too callable, and PSR would be (i think) $150 which felt like overkill. maybe 100-125 in the future or no?

fim

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you trying to accomplish?

In your post you said it's borrowed from limit, so I take it you want a free card. Raise the smallest amount possible to accomplish this. So 75.

If it's to knock weak tighty out of the pot, more is better (maybe, depends on what level thinker he is) so 125 seems better.

If you average those two you get 100, so there :P