I know pf was weak

colehard · #1 04-09-2005, 12:27 AM

I wanted to thin the field but still get more money in. It sort of worked (ok it was dumb move number 75), but now I'm up against a set, right?

Party Poker 20 + 2 No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t1160)
Hero (t755)
CO (t307)
Button (t808)
SB (t785)
BB (t785)
UTG (t1015)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t785)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to t30, 1 fold, MP2 calls t30, Hero raises to t45, 3 folds, BB calls t30, UTG+2 calls t15, MP2 calls t15.

Flop: (t187.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets t30, UTG+2 raises to t60, MP2 calls t60, Hero raises to t330, BB folds, UTG+2 calls t270, MP2 calls t270.

Turn: (t1207.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets t400......Hero??

Results:

Hero calls, UTG+2 folds.

River: (t1607.50) Td
MP2 shows KJo, MHIG - I quickly cancelled the new table i was already joining.

Freudian · #2 04-09-2005, 12:48 AM

You are getting a very good price for calling here. I don't think you will lose the hand often enough to motivate folding here.

And yes, you need to raise it up to 90 or so for the raise to be meaningful.

colehard · #3 04-09-2005, 12:57 AM

Not that this was supposed to be about my preflop play, but....My thinking was that the min raise would chase out most of those with position on me but keep in the two without position so I could still make some money. I didn't want everyone to fold, which I think a 90 bet may well have done.

However, I guess I was giving small pairs reasonable odds to call knowing that there would be at least 3 people in the pot. Plus the two who were already in had very good odds to make the extra 15 call.

So because they were not making a mistake with the 15 call, does that mean the 15 raise was actually losing me money?

Freudian · #4 04-09-2005, 01:16 AM

My experience at both 11$ and 22$ is that once they have some money in the pot and any decent looking hand, they will usually have no problem calling a preflop raise of 90. If you are lucky one of them will get frisky with 99/TT and push-all in.

Since you have the best hand preflop, your raise will never lose you money . It just makes it harder for you to play postflop and makes it harder to win more chips postflop.

curtains · #5 04-09-2005, 01:20 AM

Zero chance that all your opponents fold after making it 90. As close to zero as possible.....they don't like to fold preflop, thats why you will beat them, assuming you punish them for it, instead of making them look like geniuses by min raising.

Freudian · #6 04-09-2005, 03:47 PM

Here is a hand I played earlier in a 22$ SnG that illustrates. Even at that buyin people make horrible mistakes in the early levels.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter

MP3 (t2000)
Hero (t570)
Button (t720)
SB (t560)
BB (t1120)
UTG (t725)
UTG+1 (t790)
MP1 (t660)
MP2 (t855)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls t30, 1 fold, MP3 calls t30, Hero raises to t100, Button calls t100, 2 folds, MP1 calls t70, MP3 calls t70.

Flop: (t445) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
MP1 checks, MP3 bets t30, Hero raises to t470 (All-In), Button calls t470, MP1 folds, MP3 folds.

Turn: (t1415) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t1415) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1415

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kd Ks (full house, kings full of jacks).
Button has Ah Kh (two pair, kings and jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins t1415.