A contradictory view on heads up strategy

[J_V]

Everytime you ask for general advice about heads up play, someone comes running in suggesting the aggressive/maniacal play is the way to go.

They suggest that most of their profit comes from them running over other players, or profiting because their opponents fold to much.

However, I have played all levels of competition (exclusively online) from world class players to total fish and I find that my profit does not come from this area.
In fact, I feel that when I win (which I don't always do) its because my opponents pays off too many hands too hard. Essentially, I could talk out a strategy very quickly in words as to how to beat a player. If I can't talk out a winning strategy verbally to myself, I usually stop playing.

In general though, I have never met a player that played me head up that plays so weak tight that he folded the flop everytime without a pair or draw. And, if they start off this way they are not dumb enough to not realize they are being robbed blind.

So, I would like those of you that play heads up online (5-10 and up) to comment on this.

Thank you.

[CreamPuff]

"someone comes running in suggesting the aggressive/maniacal play is the way to go."

I think the most profitable HU opponents to play against
actually have styles like the above.

When opp's play too tight (and like you said, this
doesn't mean folding draws and pairs in general) it's
hard to score a big win (a strategy I might employ is to
raise often preflop, and slowdown with nothing postflop)

When they get all crazy and start making bizarre raises
and bluffs, is usually when I do the best.

Some of my biggest HU losses come against fairly
conservative opp's that have a good understanding
of preflop play (3 bet me with better hands, etc.) and
play sound poker.

I think what you describe is a myth, created by some
genius shorthanded player. Or maybe it just worked
against the fish back in the 80's, early 90's.
Now that I think about it, didn't LastChance get away
with it back in the dawn of online poker?

[Ikke]

Good post.

I'm fairly new with HU play, but see your point and agree with it.

Can you tell us some more about basic strategy? I.e. preflop, do you limp frequently? Always raise? Postflop, automatic bet when you raised BTF? Minimum requirements to continue when facing a bet? etc etc.

I would appeciate it if you would elaborate a bit more.

Thanks

Regards

Yes. You are right. Agression is important but will not make you a winner. And personally, I would rather play a loose agressive player than a weak player. I have played players that weak-tight, but it is not common anymore.

[Glenn]

I can play heads up ok, but I suck at logging in.

-g-

[J_V]

I have watched and played against the high limit online players. If you watch, bobcards, Jennifer Harmon, D@m@ster, Playboy. They look like they are raising a lot, but they are putting all the money in with position. They aren't routinely reraising crap out of the small blind. The aren't raising nothing on the flop. Often they call with nothing and make plays backed by draws, but their play is far from maniacal.

Personally, if a player is playing tighter than me in any game I play heads up, I quit. That's not where the money is made.

[J_V]

Here's the key in my opinion. You need to have a verbal strategy to beat a player. It doesn't really have to be verbal, but you should know what you plan to do to extract money. For instance, when you sit in a ring game you win because players play to many hands and pay off too much. Here's an example of a "verbal" strategy: "I will beat this player by flopping a better hand than him, playing it fast and aggressivly. He pays off too much and I'll win the majority of big pots" or "this player plays predictably and does not put money in when he has position, therefore i will win because the most money will go in when I have position and I will be able to make better decisions than him"

I felt like I had to do all kinds of things against the great players. I felt like they were stealing from me some, and that I couldn't count on them paying all my real hands. Also, if I increased my bluffing ratio they found ways to put a stop to it. Essentially, I couldn't verbalize a winning strategy, other than I need to read them better.

You'll find that most players play in a way so its not hard to figure out a way to make money off them. Stay away from the ones that won't. clearly playing like a maniac gives your opponent an easy winning strategy.

[J_V]

You need to bring all the tools that make you winner in a live game to the heads up table. I think most players have a tendency to feel that the pots that are being stolen from them are "adding" up faster than they really are and they incorrectly loosen up because of it.

[Ikke]