PLO/8 hand from late last night

Cleveland Guy · #1 04-08-2005, 01:40 PM

This happened late last night, so I'll try and get it as accurate as possible.

Hero was trying some $100 PLO/8 on Pokerroom. It's a short table - 5 total.

I have about $80 in front of me.

UTG is the big stack with $500 (give or a take a few)
CO is shorty with maybe $40 (Can't remember)

Hero gets dealt QQxx (can't remember, but it's not imporant)

Everyone limps in.

Flop comes Q 6 6

A rare flopped boat, with no other good draws.

SB Checks, hero checks, trying to see if someone wants to make a move.

Checked around.

Turn - 3

SB Checks, Hero bets $4 - trying to get people on a flush and or low call.

UTG calls, and CO calls.

River - 7

Great, I've still got the high, but someone probably has a low, lets see if we can't keep both people in the pot.

hero Bets out $6.

UTG Min-raises to $12.

CO calls. (CO now only has $15 left behind him).

So is my best move here to just call - or re-pop it?

highfidelity · #2 04-08-2005, 01:49 PM

If it's checked around on the flop they could both have good low hands and just be wanting to get a cheap oppurtunity to see if a low draw develops, or to try and hit a flush draw. Since both the flush and low get there, and those are two likely hands that the UTG and CO player could have I think you should reraise with a near-nut high hand. I don't think you can play passively in case someone has the case sixes (even though if they did they probably would've checked the flop with that lock) and either of them having the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] seems unlikely. So I'd say it's a reraise, but I play primarily limit O8/B though, so maybe some pot-limit players can give you a better perspective.

flair1239 · #3 04-08-2005, 02:34 PM

I would just go for the overcall. As you said it is likely, UTG has raised the low and maybe some sort of decent high hand.

highfidelity · #4 04-08-2005, 02:47 PM

why just the overcall? am i missing something (highly likely), but i don't think anyone is calling the BB w/66 in their hand, so barring the straight flush he has the high locked. If the other hands have flushes, straights (not including both the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]), lower full houses or just lows doesn't he make more money by reraising? especially if there's the small possibility they have high hands beat by hero's queen's full and he scoops. granted a low is more likely since that's when the betting began from the other players, but even if they both call his reraise with lows he still is getting a 2:1 payoff on his raise if they both call right? again, pot-limit isn't normally the structure i play but i don't understand why a raise isn't in order.

by the way, how did this hand actually turn out?

Cleveland Guy · #5 04-08-2005, 02:58 PM

I'll give results in a bit.

But you kinda hit my concern with the raise - will both call.

If both fold, well duh it was a great raise, but that's not likely.

If only the nut low calls - then I really don't gain anything, but might lose a tiny bit to extra rake paid.

So in order for a raise to make sense, they have to both call, and neither could have the 66 or 45 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I guess it's a risk/reward thing.

Wintermute · #6 04-08-2005, 03:32 PM

The real question here is why did you allow the low to get there so cheaply? The way you get paid off handsomely on this hand is not by a runner runner flush draw getting there, it's by someone with a 6 behind you filling up and paying you off with the underboat. So what you maybe want to consider doing is getting one of those players to take the aggressive lead by betting into them quasi-weakly. If I'm playing this hand, I would lead out at the flop for maybe half the pot, and hope to be raised by somebody holding a 6 who's in position on you, perhaps in two places. (I'm assuming you're in the BB, it's not 100% clear.) In this case, betting out may look suspicious to people who beileve you may be trying to represent a 6 you don't have. Also, if someone (or two) do have a six, then it works out great if they raise you on the flop, and you check the turn. It will look to them like you have a weaker hand than their 6, especially when they fill up on the turn. Then it's easy to get all the money in. Anyway, when the BB bets out at this flop, the last thing I'm deeply worried about if I'm sitting in position with a 6 (and an Ace, a lot of the time) is QQ. If I have a 6 in position, I may raise, I may call and wait to try to fill up, but in any case you have customers if any are out there. It's just not worth letting it check around to put a low draw out there, IMO.

On the turn, I'm betting the maximum now that there's a low draw on the board and the flop checked around. I'd say this is a good indication there isn't a 6 out there. You will still get A2 to call a lot of the time, perhaps a 6, and if some flush draws come along for the ride, it's so much better. But you don't need to make a small bet to invite low draws in... that's definitely the wrong attitude to have here. Low draws need to be charged the max here to make their mistake, not just $4 (again, I can't completely tell, but it sounds like you did not make the maximum bet here--a mistake).

BTW, I was just in Cleveland. Corky & Lenny's, baby. Great corned-beef sandwich.

Cleveland Guy · #7 04-08-2005, 03:38 PM

Yes I was in the BB here.

My point for the flop check was for a check raise, but I do like your line. I rarely check the flop anyways.

And yes - Corky and Lenny's is DA BOMB!!! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Wintermute · #8 04-08-2005, 04:00 PM

See, I think a check-raise on the flop here is a mistake. If you check raise, and your opponent has a 6, he will slow down (unless he has A6 and is a maniac and then pushes it all in). But if you bet out, get raised, and then call behind, this guy is going to feel in charge and will DEFINITELY bet the turn, probably very strongly. When you checkraise on this street, it will be much harder for him to get away from the hand, plus you've given him another chance to fill up with a boat that's no good.

We hit Charley's Crab too. Pretty good, but I remember it being better a couple years back...

Cleveland Guy · #9 04-08-2005, 04:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
.

We hit Charley's Crab too. Pretty good, but I remember it being better a couple years back...

[/ QUOTE ]

Charley's crab is highly overrated these days. It's turned into an over priced Red Lobster.

PM me next time your coming to town, I can give you some good suggestions.

HEy look - I hijacked my own thread [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Cleveland Guy · #10 04-08-2005, 04:54 PM

I got for the big re-raise on the river.

UTG re-re-raised for an ungodly amount. CO calls his last 14, I am so pot committed I gladly call off my last $12 (or whatever).

And then get asked if I want to muck my loser... HUH?

Turns out UTG had A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]