KINGS FROM HELL

dark_horse · #1 04-08-2005, 01:02 AM

Both of these hands occurred within 20 minutes of each other. Please rate my play as I go jump out the window.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+2 folds.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB calls.

River: (8.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB folds.

Turn: (7 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 10 BB

tijean · #2 04-08-2005, 01:26 AM

I assume you're jumping out the window because you realize both folds were a mistake.

Hand 1: You probably lose here, but I look him up anyway.

Hand 2: What's your screenname on Party? I'm gonna be clearing the Empire bonus this weekend, and I want to play at your table. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Yobz · #3 04-08-2005, 01:31 AM

I think I call both down, the second is based more off reads. If hes passive, I think you played it fine...I wouldnt fold the first hand closing the action for 1 more bet (even though your probably beat)

Shillx · #4 04-08-2005, 01:58 AM

I think I call both down, the second is based more off reads.

I don't call the river raise in hand one.

The second hand is more interesting because the single most scary card came on the turn (the Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]). If there ever was a time to bluff at a pot, this would be it. So yeah a read would really help us here.

Brad

GrandmaStabone · #5 04-08-2005, 02:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I call both down, the second is based more off reads.

I don't call the river raise in hand one.

The second hand is more interesting because the single most scary card came on the turn (the Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]). If there ever was a time to bluff at a pot, this would be it. So yeah a read would really help us here.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe that your advice in general is usually pretty good, so will you explain to me why I believe the 2nd fold is correct? The most likely hand(s!) have both completed. Top pair just hit his 5 outer and the guy just calling on the flop (good indicator of a draw) has just woke up and started betting, how can Kings be good here? Two questions:

1.) Can you fold the river here with these odds? I didn't think it was even possible to EVER fold to one more bet in this instance after investing all that monry. SO if you will explain to me why you fold on the river to a raise here (with those odds) I could probably plug a leak.

2.) Why pay off the second hand? What likely hands are you beating here?

cold_cash · #6 04-08-2005, 02:12 AM

Against a certain type of opponent, (a type that actually represents a fairly large percentage of the online poker population), I don't have a problem with either of these hands.

cold_cash · #7 04-08-2005, 02:15 AM

I think Shill is talking about our opponent bluffing at the pot in hand 2.

(Meaning if our opponent is thinking, he knows this is a great card to bluff at, making a calldown a decent course of action for us in that situation. If our opponent is a typical dillrod, folding is probably best -- which is probably the more likely scenario.)

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

aK13 · #8 04-08-2005, 02:16 AM

For the second one, a read is crucial here. I posted a similar hand where I have AA instead.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=1#Post2103557

Dave G. · #9 04-08-2005, 02:28 AM

Yes, hand 2 is marginal and a read would be good. Only 3 people saw the flop. The appearance of the 2nd queen on the turn means it's quite unlikely that the other two actually have a queen themselves. The extra potential for losing to a flush might make this a fold, but if your opponent is tricky you could be making a sucker play.

This is even more true if you routinely do the bet-fold thing on a scare card as you did here. Good opponents will notice this and they'll take shots at you. This is the perfect time for a bluff.

Malachii · #10 04-08-2005, 02:36 AM

I'd fold the second one in a split second unless I knew him to be tricky. The top card on the board pairing is the absolute worst thing that can happen to an overpair.