Hand from $50 MTT, paved way for win, discussion worthy IMHO

Jurollo · #1 04-07-2005, 02:33 PM

Ok... so here it is, to some it may look ugly but I will post comments after each street, tell me what you think.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1200 (7 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

CO (t27155)
Hero (t85126)
SB (t15954)
BB (t20639)
UTG (t51822)
MP1 (t8360)
MP2 (t10855)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises to t3600, 3 folds, Hero calls t3600, 2 folds.

Ok so preflop I was content with just seeing a flop, at this point I have a large enough stack and had been stealing a good amount so I don't see a reraise getting much respect, so I take it inexpensively to the flop

Flop: (t7650) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets t4800, UTG raises to t9600, Hero calls t4800.

Flop comes up fairly safe and gives me two backdoor draws and 2 overs, pretty standard to fire into this. He checkraises me with a minraise, this either means a lot of strength or he just wants to get out for as cheap as possible, he seemed slightly laggy from the 2.5 orbits I had seen so I called for the sole purpose of setting up a bluff on the turn. Standard?

Turn: (t26850) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets t12000, UTG calls t12000.

Ok, so checked to me I fire another round, now with the flush draw and he flat calls. What does this tell me? Either a) he made the flush, or b) the heart scared him... I think if he held any pair with an A or K of hearts he pushes here to get me off the hand, but he checks, curious.

River: (t50850) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets t26547 (All-In), Hero calls t26547.

Well I hit one of the outs I set myself up for. I have a hand and am not bluffing at this anymore. But does he have the A or K? 2 cards beat me here and I have a good sense he doesn't have the A or he would have likely value bet the river instead of pushing here, flawed thinking? In fact, I am assuming he would have likely value bet the K too, or even checked hoping I fire a 3rd time, but he pushed, this screams weakness to me and I call, not to mention I am getting decent odds for my Q high flush.
Final Pot: t103944

Results in white below: 
UTG has 9h 9c (flush, nine high)
Hero has Ad Qh (flush, queen high).
Outcome: Hero wins t103944. 

My read was right, he kept me in the pot instead of raising me and I hit an out. Is this horrid big stack play considering he isn't a small stack? Keep in mind I am still 10th if I lose this pot. Really interested to see some thoughts on this.

Cleveland Guy · #2 04-07-2005, 02:44 PM

If the villian was decent - lets look at it from his perspective.

Preflop - LP raise to 3xBB - and I'm called... hmm. he must have a good, but not great hand.

Flop - T high, that probably didn't help him, but he's betting out, I'll raise to see if this was a pure bluff.

Okay, he calls, maybe he has AT? KT?

Turn- Damn a heart, I better check now, lets see what he does. Oh a min bet, well maybe he does have AT and is worried about a heart. I could hit a heart on the river, but I can also now hit a straight, I'll call

River - Yes, my heart came through, I beat his TPTK or TPGK. I'll wake up and fire into the pot, he might think it's a bluff.

After the river - DAMN, he had AQ, I should have pushed harder on earlier streets.

DireWolf · #3 04-07-2005, 02:45 PM

I don't really like the turn bet. Its not likely to push villan of his hand. I would either bet about 20,000 here trying to take it down, or check it through and hope to hit something. Maybe thats all wrong though?
His flop bet is wierd also, but im confusing my self trying to think about it, so maybe others can help me with that.

schwza · #4 04-07-2005, 02:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is Button with A, Q.
UTG raises to t3600, 3 folds, Hero calls t3600, 2 folds.

Ok so preflop I was content with just seeing a flop, at this point I have a large enough stack and had been stealing a good amount so I don't see a reraise getting much respect, so I take it inexpensively to the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

i would raise to 11k and fold to a push. if your reraise isn't getting respect and he'll call with AT, that's an argument to reraise. if he'll 4-bet all-in with AT, that's an argument against. but i'd be very surprised if he did that.

[ QUOTE ]
Flop comes up fairly safe and gives me two backdoor draws and 2 overs, pretty standard to fire into this. He checkraises me with a minraise, this either means a lot of strength or he just wants to get out for as cheap as possible, he seemed slightly laggy from the 2.5 orbits I had seen so I called for the sole purpose of setting up a bluff on the turn. Standard?

[/ QUOTE ]

i would check here. it gives you a chance to hit an out. if he's LAG, he's not going to check-fold when he misses - he'll usually make a continuation bet when he misses. you're still leaving yourself the option of stealing it with a turn raise.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (t26850) 8 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets t12000, UTG calls t12000.

Ok, so checked to me I fire another round, now with the flush draw and he flat calls. What does this tell me? Either a) he made the flush, or b) the heart scared him... I think if he held any pair with an A or K of hearts he pushes here to get me off the hand, but he checks, curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would check behind again. you have a lot of outs and really don't want to get c/r'ed. after a flop c/r, you have to believe villain is strong and might c/r you again. either way, your odds are low of stealing it now.

[ QUOTE ]
Well I hit one of the outs I set myself up for. I have a hand and am not bluffing at this anymore. But does he have the A or K? 2 cards beat me here and I have a good sense he doesn't have the A or he would have likely value bet the river instead of pushing here, flawed thinking? In fact, I am assuming he would have likely value bet the K too, or even checked hoping I fire a 3rd time, but he pushed, this screams weakness to me and I call, not to mention I am getting decent odds for my Q high flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're talking yourself into reasons to call. you think he'd bet, what, 1/4 pot when he only has 1/2 pot in his stack if had the A or K?

it's close. i think i'd call. i think there's at least a 1/4 chance this is a bluff. btw, this is another reason to check the turn and keep the pot small.

mts · #5 04-07-2005, 02:45 PM

he played it badly, you got lucky.

Jurollo · #6 04-07-2005, 02:47 PM

Well my turn bet was a little under 50% of the pot, so it was anything by a min raise, in hindsight it may have not been enough to get him off the hand, but if I am holding 99 there I might fold fearing an overpair. I think I played the hand a lot like a big pair which is why I don't see the logic in him throwing his chips away like that on the turn and river.
~Justin

MLG · #7 04-07-2005, 02:49 PM

you didnt play this hand well, but he played it worse. calling on the flop is pretty bad because except for runner runner, you can just never be happy here. I would take my free card on the turn and then bluff the river if checked to me again.

We all have this compulsion to call minraises because its "just" a min raise, but when you have completely whiffed sometimes you just gotta let it go even if you are being bluffed. Here is one of those cases.

Also, if your willing to put that many chips in the pot on a flop when you don't improve, then you would be better served using those chips to reraise preflop.

billyjex · #8 04-07-2005, 02:50 PM

silly villian needs to push the flop. congrats on the win!

Jurollo · #9 04-07-2005, 02:50 PM

Nice comments schwza. I think the turn is the only street I really question. I thought at the time that either a) I get c/r'd and get out, or b) he folds it up to another bullet. I did not expect him to put 12K more into the pot there was an option. So that is the reasoning behind the turn bet. The river bet just looked fishy, so I called. That's the thought process.
~Justin

Jurollo · #10 04-07-2005, 02:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you didnt play this hand well, but he played it worse. calling on the flop is pretty bad because except for runner runner, you can just never be happy here. I would take my free card on the turn and then bluff the river if checked to me again.

We all have this compulsion to call minraises because its "just" a min raise, but when you have completely whiffed sometimes you just gotta let it go even if you are being bluffed. Here is one of those cases.

Also, if your willing to put that many chips in the pot on a flop when you don't improve, then you would be better served using those chips to reraise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

More good points MLG. My worry preflop was that if I raised it to 9K he would instantly raise me again and I didn't want to see that happen. The T high flop screamed for a bluff in my mind and his min raise I just called to set up a play on the turn. However, in retrospect I likely should have checked behind, although I do think I had a decent amount of FE with him having only 33K left or so, he was essentially committing his tourney to this hand right there, and for this reason I don't understand why he didn't c/r me. I thought any player here either pushes or folds, after I raise to 12K.
~Justin