Anyone else amazed by this Bonds story?

[Clarkmeister]

During game 2 of the World Series, Joe Buck told the following story about Barry Bonds and Shawon Dunstan:

Early in the 2001 season, Shawon comes up to Barry and says "I think that if you stay healthy, you are going to hit 70 this year the way you are swinging it" Barry responded with "Well, if I hit 70, I'll buy you a new Mercedes"

Apparently, Bonds paid, and Shawon is still driving that free Mercedes.

Pretty cool story, I thought.

[B-Man]

Did Shawon know Bonds was on steroids?

[Clarkmeister]

Do you?

[B-Man]

I think there is a lot of evidence to suggest he is. I can't prove it, but I think he, Sammy, McGwire, Luis Gonzalez and others are cheaters.

Do you think he's on the juice?

It's a shame, really, because there was no question he was a lock for the Hall of Fame before 2001. It's also ironic; I'm sure he turned to the juice because he wanted to improve his legacy. Now when I think of Bonds I don't think of his consistent greatness throughout his career, I think of steroids.

[Clarkmeister]

You know, thats a fair question.

I certainly think that some players are, but I also think its very difficult to tell for a couple of reasons.

The best examples I can give are in the NBA, simply because they have careers almost as long as baseball players, and because their physiques are so obvious given their lack of clothing.

Ever seen Barkley, Malone or Jordan when they were rookies, 5 year vets, and 10 year vets? Malone was a skinny dude, now he is a tank. Barkley, as big as he was got way bigger. And Jordan was nowhere near the musclebound player he ended up becoming.

My point is these guys, especially the dedicated ones at the top of their sport work out and train year round now. Couple that intense training with the natural addition of weight with age, and you see how they can get so ripped without the use of anabolic steroids or HGH.

Does that mean that Bonds, etc aren't on steroids? No. But if it came out that none of the players you mentioned were on steroids, I wouldn't be shocked at all. I am very surprised you would list Luis Gonzales. He is still a pretty skinny dude. People do have career years, you know. Ask Brady Anderson.

Anyways, to answer your question, of Bonds, McGwire, Sosa and Gonzales, I'd be surprised if more than 1 was on HGH, and I wouldn't be shocked if none were.

[B-Man]

I haven't really thought about the basketball players very much. I was a huge NBA fan in the 80s, I remember all of those guys when they were young. Jordan was skinny, I don't remember the Mailman being skinny, but if you say so maybe he was. Barkley was overweight but very athletic. The players today are MUCH more athletic, no question. I still think the Celtics or Lakers of the 80s would beat any team since (including any Bulls team) in a 7 game series, but thats a topic for a different post...

As for Bonds, I find it incredible that a player as consistent as he had been--consistently great, but always in the 30-45 home run range--could start to improve so much at age 35, and then have a quantum leap at age 36. Obviously, he got much bigger and stronger, and I think it was because of steroids. When someone improves at a late age, its very suspicious (just like that swimmer from Ireland--I think her name was Michelle Smith). He put on a lot of muscle, and I think he had help. Steroids wont make you a great baseball player, but they can make a great baseball player a great home run hitter...

I think with Sammy it's even more obvious, look at his body, and look at his forehead. Griffey, Jr. is the only bigtime slugger of recent years that I am convinced is clean (and unfortunately, he's not good anymore, let alone great).

Sure, L. Gonzalez could have just had a career year, but his career year might have been for the same reasons Caminiti had his (he admitted using steroids). L.G. went from a career high in home runs of 31 (set the year before, and before that it was 26) to 57, at age 33. He had been in the big leagues 12 years. Makes you wonder...

By the way, are you sure Brady Anderson is innocent?

[HDPM]

McGuire was using Andro which is banned some places. Not a steroid, but definitely a supplement that wasn't around in the '40's&50's.

One amazing physique change is that of Tiger Woods. Look at him in '97 his first year as a pro. Look at him now. He is way bigger and stronger. And I don't think he's on the juice.

[M2d]

not to pick nits, but are steroids useage really cheating? yes they are illegal in the USA, so that may go a way to defining them as cheating, but, if they aren't specifically disallowed by Major league baseball, can their use in a major league baseball game be considered cheating.
granted, this is a spirit of the word versus absolute definition of the word thing, but if you consider steroids cheating, where do you draw the line? are legal suppliments cheating? some have proven or suspected long term health effects tied to their use, but they aren't illegal. Does their use then fall into the legitimate category?
the argument for suppliments as cheating leads me to believe that weightlifting could be considered cheating, since it is something that was not available to previous generations of ball players. pure, unsupplimented weightlifting will surely pack on the pounds and the strength, and probably gives players untold advantages when compared to the players of yesteryear.
How about video analysis? high speed photography? extensive advance scouting? balanced diets? first class air travel? these are all techniquest or tools that players today have at their disposal that players in the 70s and earlier could only dream of.

[B-Man]

Is murder cheating? There is no rule in baseball against murder, so does that mean it is allowed?

Even if I agreed with the above line of reasoning--which I obviously don't--steroids are illegal in baseball. There was not any testing for them because the players had not agreed to it until this offseason, but there was a commissioner's rule against it. There is no question that the use of steroids is and has been against the rules of major league baseball, there was just no way to enforce it.

The other things you listed--weightlifting, video anaylsis, photography, etc.--how do you consider those cheating? I never said steroids were cheating because they weren't available 100 years ago. They are cheating because they are agaist the laws of the U.S. and against the rules of major league baseball. I think comparing the things you listed to steroids is ludicrous.

[Sooga]

Luis Gonzalez on the juice? Are you serious? Look at him.... Put him, Bonds, Sammy, and McGwire in a lineup and it's like a picture from the Sesame Street 'Which one doesn't belong' skit.. Lu-Go is a pole... There have been plenty of career-year one-hit wonders in the past (Roger Maris is the obvious example), I don't think Lu-Go's year was that far out of place, especially given that he changed his hitting stance drastically in 1997, which coincidentally was when his power numbers increased.