odd little hand 215

citanul · #1 03-31-2005, 01:19 AM

Hi, my name is citanul and I'm in love with sets. As a result of that, I kinda like pocket pairs. It's possible I play them in spots I shouldn't. Was this one? Bear with me.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) converter

BB (t885)
UTG (t690)
UTG+1 (t837)
MP1 (t2005)
MP2 (t1280)
MP3 (t1028)
CO (t1180)
Hero (t1245)
SB (t850)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises to t125, MP3 calls t125, 1 fold,

Ok, so here we are the first time. It's 125 to the hero, on the button, with a pair. And not just ANY pair, but SEVENS! Oh, and there's already 325 or so in the pot, and everybody in the hand has >1k chips, so my implied odds all look nice and dapper.

Hero calls t125, SB raises to t275, 1 fold, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t150,

Oh now, that just wasn't very nice at all. The upside: Well, I can put the sb on an incredibly narrow range of hands, all of which I take his whole stack if I hit my hand, and well, once again, the immediate odds are looking pretty hot. So of course,

Hero calls t150.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)

Hm, the converter seems to have crapped out on me:

SB bets 250, MP3 is all-In 753, and well, HERO's decisions were made before the flop, no set, no bet, Hero folds. SB is all-In [325]

Well fortunately for me, I'm not an idiot (or am I?) because well, I knew that there was no way that AQ was good. Sadly for MP3, he did not know that secret, and lost a lot of chips.

meh?

citanul

Jman28 · #2 03-31-2005, 01:39 AM

Dude, I love pocket pairs too.

But this is a clear fold preflop. I don't know where I heard the rule, but it is:

For low PPs in early rounds, fold if you can't get in for 1/15th of your stack or less (or the next biggest stack in the hand)

You're 7.5:1 against hitting the set, and you aren't gonna double up nearly every time you hit. I like the rule.

-Jman28

citanul · #3 03-31-2005, 01:55 AM

hmmm... i called off 1/10th of my stack the first time, but with 2 opponents already in the pot. is that really so much worse than 1/15th? and where are you getting this rule from?

the second raise i think is an easy call.

The Yugoslavian · #4 03-31-2005, 01:59 AM

Ok, so you really need to like pm Dali/Gramps/[215er] or something on this one....but for whatever it's worth:

I'm not sure I like calling behind here. Sure you're not getting repopped too often but you will a bit of the time and this is no good. Then, there are those times you hit but never really get any/enough action.....then there are times when you lose to a flush draw or something....and those times u lose to a bigger set (yes, I know this is very small...).

I'd want to be *veryveryvery* certain I'm getting all of someone's chips if I hit my set here before calling off a significant (yet not anywhere near/close/in the ballpark of crippling) part of my stack with 77.

Yugoslav
Who has never played a $215, but has watched some....FWIW.

citanul · #5 03-31-2005, 02:11 AM

I don't see any good reason to "call in the big guns" I'm sure that lots of little guns can shoot down my possibly poor play just as well.

I'm not sure I even like my play at all in this spot, so uh, have at thee?

citanul, who must admit right away that he doesn't like putting too much stock into the concept that he might lose when he flops a set. meh.

The Yugoslavian · #6 03-31-2005, 02:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]

citanul, who must admit right away that he doesn't like putting too much stock into the concept that he might lose when he flops a set. meh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I hope it was clear from my thinking that this is not the primary reason I don't like the call. I don't like it due to getting paid off...all the ways you can still end up losing and/or having to abandon this hand preflop are just like negative bonus points....the positive bonus points by somehow winning a checked showdown don't negate them IMO....

Okay, so I think your chips are better served in a different spot.

Yugoslav
Do you play 22 the same way here?

citanul · #7 03-31-2005, 02:29 AM

don't forget: sometimes you triple or quadruple up too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

and yeah, i'd probably play 22 the same way here. depends on my mood. sometimes i muck both i guess. sometimes not. we'll see which should become my "always" play soon i guess.

citanul

johnnybeef · #8 03-31-2005, 02:29 AM

i don't like your play and ill tell you why. your relative postion sucks. there are still 2 people to act after you. an interesting article on this is in ciaffones improve your poker on pg. 178 entitled "where's he from". if you would have been last to act after the raiser i would not mind your call. as it stands you have induced yourself to make a series of correct calls that could have been avoidable and in the process have blead away 300 in chips which will be much more valuable later on.

my .02

citanul · #9 03-31-2005, 02:47 AM

meh. the percentage of the time that one of the blinds is reraising is tiny. i welcome them to call the raise, as more people means that if i hit my set, i'm more likely to double or double+ up. i think that worrying too much about the reraise is a bit silly.

still, i'm not going to say that my original call was correct necessarilly.

citanul

johnnybeef · #10 03-31-2005, 03:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
meh. the percentage of the time that one of the blinds is reraising is tiny.

[/ QUOTE ]

then you are posting a situation that is unlikely to come up again for a while. as far as calling a raise with a middle pair, i love this play if the stacks are much deeper. as it stands you are on a very limited br.

edit: as is every one else