Taking off the training wheels...I hope

Somekid · #1 03-30-2005, 02:53 PM

I just reread SSH and am trying to loosen up PF a little. Through my first 20k hands of .5/1 my VPIP was 16.5 with ~7% PFR. I took a break to study and reread SSH and have played about 2k hands since returning. My VPIP is 22% and PFR is at 10 (I'm aware the numbers take some time to converge). Anyways I played this hand and its kinda confusing. No reads, although UTG was short stacked and I know they tend to play loose. Perhaps I should call the 2 bets on the flop (draw to the flush?). My concern was a cap from the CO.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, CO raises, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, Hero folds, CO calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG calls $0.35 (All-In), CO calls.

Final Pot: 12.20 BB

Marquis · #2 03-30-2005, 03:03 PM

I probably wouldn't bet the flop, but I don't mind that you did.

It sucks calling two cold on the turn but you're getting something like 6-1.

Entity · #3 03-30-2005, 03:03 PM

Your turn fold is [censored] disastrous.

cold_cash · #4 03-30-2005, 03:06 PM

I don't like the flop, nor do I like the turn fold.

Somekid · #5 03-30-2005, 03:09 PM

thanks. I was just feeling a little stupid before. Now I realize that this was a horrible move. Now I know why I didn't get big headed after sustaining a decent win rate over 20k hands. There's so much to learn. Might as well stick around at .5/1 where the lessons are cheap

joeski19 · #6 03-30-2005, 03:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the flop, nor do I like the turn fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm new and learning... Don't you want to show strength here? What's wrong with the flop bet? You have a marginal hand sure, but you do have a gutshot draw, BDFD, and low pair.

aK13 · #7 03-30-2005, 03:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the flop, nor do I like the turn fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm new and learning... Don't you want to show strength here? What's wrong with the flop bet? You have a marginal hand sure, but you do have a gutshot draw, BDFD, and low pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I think since nobody has shown any strength on the flop, you need to bet. And yes, 2 bets cold on the turn sucks, but getting 10 to 2 (5 to 1) on a flush draw + gutshot + possibly 2 9s, this should be a definite call, although I'm wondering how the hell a 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is helping UTG.

cold_cash · #8 03-30-2005, 03:27 PM

There are a few things I don't like about the flop bet.

First of all, against 4 opponents you're trailing here around 100% of the time.

Secondly, your Jack outs are no good anymore, and if you make your gut-shot there's a chance you're splitting.

Thirdly, nobody with a better hand will fold, and there's always the possibility of being raised.

On the flop I would not be in any hurry to get my chips in the pot, whether it be calling or betting. Basically you have a weak draw in a small pot.

luckyplayer · #9 03-30-2005, 03:28 PM

I'm also in the middle of trying to absorb/apply SSH, so I welcome any criticism to my attempted analysis.

flop: bottom pair + 1 card gutshot + backdoor flush. With that kind of board, you are most likely behind. Vs. 5 opps, catching your J will more than likely give someone a straight, catching a T will often result in a split with any J. Your 9's may be full outs. Given the board, I say discount to J to 0 or 1 out, disount the 9 to 1.5, give 2-3 outs for the T, and 1.5 for the backdoor flush. At best this is 7 outs, so it may be okay to bet here given that its been checked so far.

On the turn, you picked up your flush draw. You have increased your chances to win. 9 flush outs+ ~1.5 for nonspade T + ~0.5 for J + 1.5 for 9 gives 12.5 outs here. This is a definitely at least a call.

BigD226 · #10 03-30-2005, 03:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There are a few things I don't like about the flop bet.

First of all, against 4 opponents you're trailing here around 100% of the time.

Secondly, your Jack outs are no good anymore, and if you make your gut-shot there's a chance you're splitting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty new here, but I spotted this also. No way your 9's and a weak backdoor flush draw is the best hand given the way most players at .50/$1 will play any A or K, and almost any Q. I might still be playing a little too tight at .5/$1, but I would've auto-folded this preflop in MP.

[ QUOTE ]
Thirdly, nobody with a better hand will fold, and there's always the possibility of being raised.

On the flop I would not be in any hurry to get my chips in the pot, whether it be calling or betting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, I don't like even being in this pot (but what do I know?)...however, if I am in, I can see where you'd at least consider betting this on the flop with only the CO behind you and no one showing strength. Getting the button here certainly can't hurt.

On the other hand, you're right that no one would fold for 1 small bet. Its nearly certain that you are behind to begin with...but if you are raised, you are WAY behind even though you may be getting the odds to call it since you've already put a bet in. No-win situation.

Great avatar, cold cash. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]