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#1
03-29-2005, 06:16 PM
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Value call?
20+2 STT on party, no reads. Call me a station but this was a bit weird...
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter CO (t1390) Button (t810) SB (t435) BB (t1630) UTG (t840) UTG+1 (t240) Hero (t980) MP2 (t1675) Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t90</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls t90, SB calls t75, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>. Flop: (t300) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t145</font>, Button calls t145, SB calls t145. Turn: (t735) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks. River: (t735) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t200</font>, SB folds, Hero calls t200. It felt like a fishy call, but I could see a variety of hands making that smallish bet on the river, including small pocket pairs (88 ish), missed big cards (AK/AT), as well as made hands like KQ, AJ, QJ, etc. But getting 4.5:1 I didn't want to let a position bluff get me out so easily. As far as stack concerns go, I'd have 750 if I folded and 550 if I called and lost, but 1700 if I won. Analysis on all streets welcome. But FWIW I usually raise TT (and JJ) to 120 or 150 preflop here, but just felt like 3 BBs this time. -Kings 
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#3
03-29-2005, 06:25 PM
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Re: Value call?
[ QUOTE ]
JT or QJ ? I don't like the PF raise, the flop bet is decent enough and the river check/call is iffy. Even with the odds they gave I'd check/fold. [/ QUOTE ] You don't like raising TT preflop in a 20+2 from MP? Are you serious? And JTh doesn't make any sense. He had nothing on the flop. QJ of any kind (hearts or not) would make sense though
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#4
03-29-2005, 06:31 PM
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Re: Value call?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] JT or QJ ? I don't like the PF raise, the flop bet is decent enough and the river check/call is iffy. Even with the odds they gave I'd check/fold. [/ QUOTE ] You don't like raising TT preflop in a 20+2 from MP? Are you serious? And JTh doesn't make any sense. He had nothing on the flop. QJ of any kind (hearts or not) would make sense though [/ QUOTE ] Oops, wasn't paying attention fully when I posted this. The not raising TT part was correct but the JT [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] should be edited out as you're right. Either way, no set, no bet for me. ESPECIALLY after they both call the flop bet.
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#5
03-29-2005, 06:34 PM
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Re: Value call?
I'm guessing he's got either a weak Q or Axs for missed flush draw...
Depending on if I have any sort of read or not, I might make that call as well but I think you're likely losing 50%+ of the time... edit: nevermind... missed flush draw doesn't make any sense... disregard that [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
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#6
03-29-2005, 06:34 PM
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Re: Value call?
I don't value call or value raise my nuts here.....namely b/c YOU DON'T HAVE ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THE NUTS.
Let this one go...it's not worth it for you. Yugoslav Who would, however, most likely get disqualified for urinating on the table.
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#7
03-29-2005, 06:43 PM
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Re: Value call?
[ QUOTE ]
I think you're likely losing 50%+ of the time... [/ QUOTE ] I agree. But am I losing this more than 900/1100 or 82% of the time? That's the question. -Kings
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#8
03-29-2005, 06:45 PM
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Re: Value call?
[ QUOTE ]
I don't value call or value raise my nuts here.....namely b/c YOU DON'T HAVE ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THE NUTS. Let this one go...it's not worth it for you. [/ QUOTE ] Well I'm fully aware that I'm not close to the nuts. I think you're missing the point. If you vote fold, I'd love an explanation that explains why I'm behind more than 82% of the time here. You can take a pee break first, just not on my table [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] -Kings
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#9
03-29-2005, 06:47 PM
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Re: Value call?
[ QUOTE ]
Oops, wasn't paying attention fully when I posted this. The not raising TT part was correct but the JT should be edited out as you're right. Either way, no set, no bet for me. ESPECIALLY after they both call the flop bet. [/ QUOTE ] TT is too damn powerful in my mind for a "no set no bet" philosophy. Is it so much worse than JJ for you that you switch from treating it like a premium to treating it like 22? There's an argument to be made for limping TT, but I think it better applies at higher stakes. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts though. -Kings
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#10
03-29-2005, 06:49 PM
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Re: Value call?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I don't value call or value raise my nuts here.....namely b/c YOU DON'T HAVE ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THE NUTS. Let this one go...it's not worth it for you. [/ QUOTE ] Well I'm fully aware that I'm not close to the nuts. I think you're missing the point. If you vote fold, I'd love an explanation that explains why I'm behind more than 82% of the time here. You can take a pee break first, just not on my table [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] -Kings [/ QUOTE ] Okay.....looks like you missed my joke to begin with, which is fine.....in all seriousness, here goes: Preflop: I call.....I fold if I am going to play it the way you seem to plan to. Flop: Yeah, I fold here too (or check/fold). Turn: Again....I fold River: I fold to this bet.....are you behind more than 82% of the time? Nope....you don't have to be though. Yugoslav PS If I have more chips and make it to the river in this situation, I call...
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