curious about ed miller gospel

[mhardy]

Hi -

I'm new here but saw very quickly that sshe/ed miller are for the most part considered unquestionable truth. Why is that? Are his plays demonstrably true (you've seen this yourself)? Is it simply based on the math (of gambling)? If so, are his book/posts derived from earlier authors(s)?

Or is he a somewhat new "authority" with original material, original thoughts and original insights on the game? I'm trying to get some perspective on why it seems like sshe/ed turned the lights on for everybody and now we see, even though poker has been around for some time with plenty written about it....

[jaxUp]

Well, for one thing twoplustwo publishing is the publisher of his book, so this site really would only have supporters for it. Secondly, yes, his methods have been verified through the experience of many many players here over millions of hands, and while some slight mods are made, it's a very great tool for learning. Also, a lot of it is mathematical. Without a grasp of the fundamental mahematics of poker, you won't be able to play SSH style poker.

[Thigh]

I'll quickly respond before Ed bans you for life from this site for questioning his authority. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

But really, I guess there would be lots of reasons. First of all, Sklansky and Malmuth seem to like him, and they already have a proven track record with their other books. Would they actually put someone in their book that didn't know what they were doing?

Second, we play poker here. If his advice wasn't working, someone would have noted that already. This site has been around a long time. Stick around, try his advice out. If it doesn't work for you, do something else.

[davelin]

From what I understand SSH was specifically written for the types of games that has only appeared in recent times. Low limits, proliferation of the online game and the increasing popularity of the game has brought many newer and less experienced players to the game. SSH was written to take the fullest advantage of the common mistakes these players make (too loose pre-flop, too passive post). Older books are written for different types of games, more for opponents where these mistakes do not occur as often. Once you get to some of these higher stakes, some SSH principles don't apply as much.

[UncleSalty]

[ QUOTE ]
Are his plays demonstrably true (you've seen this yourself)?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.

[ QUOTE ]
Is it simply based on the math (of gambling)?

[/ QUOTE ]
The advice is rooted in the mathmatical theory of the game, but there is a great deal of practical advice in terms of hand reading, common situations, etc...

[ QUOTE ]
If so, are his book/posts derived from earlier authors(s)?

[/ QUOTE ]
Somewhat (and only more respected authors), but he has specifically tailored the advice to apply to today's loose small-stakes games.

[ QUOTE ]
Or is he a somewhat new "authority" with original material, original thoughts and original insights on the game? I'm trying to get some perspective on why it seems like sshe/ed turned the lights on for everybody and now we see, even though poker has been around for some time with plenty written about it....

[/ QUOTE ]

The majority of the poker strategy books that have been written offer some pretty shabby advice. Often these books contain a great deal of subjective, rather than objective, advice which is based on personal impressions and experience of the game. Because of this, many poker authors write with a view of minimizing losses and variance ("weak-tight") rather than exploiting small edges and maximizing long-term expectation. Ed Miller, and all of the authors at 2+2 provide sound mathmatical advice for correct play in the long run.

Stick around, and welcome to the forums.

-Salty

[UncleSalty]

[ QUOTE ]
If it doesn't work for you, you're not doing it right

[/ QUOTE ]

Thigh, I fixed your post. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

-Salty

[Thigh]

[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[GrunchCan]

SSH is a kind of playbook that teaches a very aggressive style of poker that isn't usually seen in texts designed for low-limits. Many times the correct play isn't the obvious play or intuitive play - such as checking and raising with just second pair. SSH shows how to do these things and why to do these things.

SSH isn't a beginner's poker book, but at the same time, it isn't the end-all be-all poker book. Ed himself has said that SSH can be used on different levels. On one level, you can just drink the Kool Aid, do just what it says, and be fine. On the other hand, if you look at SSH as just a guide, an impetus for new ideas, you can go much further.

One specific example of people drinking the Kool Aid is many posters' strict adherence to a narrow interpretation of the starting hands guidelines. Ed himself says within the text of SSH that the starting hands charts are not universal, and yet many posters choose to stick to them like a 2-part epoxy. This approach is not -EV overall, but it is not as +EV as finding your own way based on a solid educational and experiential foundation.

In short, SSH is full of great ideas that were not seen in print so concisely before in the context of a low-limit game. On the other hand, there is more to poker than just what you read in SSH.

[detruncate]

Ed Miller is a very smart cat who learned his chops from some of the best posters on the 2+2 boards. As such, his book contains a lot of their collected experience and wisdom. It's also been vetted by David and Mason, unquestionably two of the best poker minds anywhere.

A lot of the more experienced players around here weren't surprised by most of the things contained in the book -- though its breadth and Ed and Co.'s ability to articulate the underlying theory impressed a lot of very good players.

Argument is welcome. Diesagreements lead to better understanding on everyone's part. SSH isn't the "final arbiter," it's just a book that attempts to explain why certain plays are made by expert players.

Not everyone agrees with everything, but the important part of the conversation is on a much higher level than all but a few people are able to fully partipate in. It's enough for us to know that the consensus among the really good players who hang around here is that SSH does a good job of explaining the tools and techniques we need to learn if we want to be successful in the Micro-Small Stakes world.

[UncleSalty]

Grunchcan and Detruncate:

Excellent posts.