TAG of a villian,

Yobz · #1 03-28-2005, 01:40 AM

Villian is a TAG (the only one at the table) and has "made moves" before.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds, MP3 raises, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls.

River: (9 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

I would fold to a turn raise. Should I bet/fold river? Should I check/fold turn?

NAU_Player · #2 03-28-2005, 01:46 AM

I would lead out on the river. He only bet because you showed weakness.

No way he has a K, and if he does he's a retard. You beat virtually every other hand possibility

mannika · #3 03-28-2005, 01:47 AM

I like your play on this one pretty well. I would bet/fold the river, but given your description of villain (likely to take advantage of percieved weakness, capable of tricks), I think your river line is fine as well.

Duerig · #4 03-28-2005, 01:50 AM

I like this line. I don't think he pays you off without a K so check calling the river seems like a good idea.

cold_cash · #5 03-28-2005, 01:51 AM

I think the river play is good.

I don't think he has a King, but I also think he'll bet more hands than he'll call with.

Kumubou · #6 03-28-2005, 01:54 AM

What was your thought process about betting the turn and then checking the river? I'm serious; it may be a good play (or not) but my n00bular ass can not comprehend it. I understand that the villan could be very well be raising to protect a middle pair, wired or not, so I can understand continuing on with the hand. It just seems that your line is... odd.

Was the river check to induce a bluff bet, considering there's almost no way that a bet is getting called without a K?

-K

the_rookie · #7 03-28-2005, 01:59 AM

I'm trying to figure out what hands a TAG would limp in MP after one limper. I'm fairly certain he folds anything less than K9s here. So since that's my cutoff I'd say he doesn't have the K.

And he doesn't have a set because we would have heard from him on the turn.

I doubt he has an inside straight draw on the flop. JT or QT because I don't think he'd limp in with those hands.

I take it back. He might limp in with those hands if they were suited. So if take this route then I say he could've possibly been raising for a freecard on the flop. And he bet the river as a bluff.

I'm not putting him on a middle pair. I'm sure a TAG would fold this hand to two overcards. (TT excluded here).

I think the check/call is the best play here. Let the TAG bluff at this pot with his busted draw [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] because he folds to a bet if he did miss his draw.

EDIT*

After reading other responses it's possible he could have a pair of 9s and was raising it for a freecard. And the fact you didn't 3-bet him on the flop made him believe his hand was good when another K fell. And you just leading that turn seemed awkward to him. It'd for me. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Shillx · #8 03-28-2005, 02:18 AM

I don't think he has a King

This is exactly how a TAG should play a king on the turn. If we have him kicked, it does him little good to raise. If we don't have a king, he doesn't want to lose us by raising (the board is drawless). It is a way ahead/behind spot for the villian and not making a move until the river is the money play. A dumbass will raise the turn everytime with trips which is a key distinction between a TAG and a bad player. Had the TAG raised the turn, we should have paid it off imo.

Brad

FreakDaddy · #9 03-28-2005, 03:19 AM

If you're not going to 3-bet the flop, then leading the turn when the King hits is not smart imo against a TAG. He'll call and hope you bet the turn. Only to call and hope you lead the river. Villian calling the turn is NOT a good sign. I think it's 80/20 villian has K so check call on the river is a marginal call. About break even in my estimation.

the_rookie · #10 03-28-2005, 03:24 AM

After reading Shillx's post, I think villian could have KTs as a possibility. I keep saying "suited" because I'm sure that most of us (we consider ourselves to be TAGs [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) would fold a hand like KTo.

But yeah I agree with Freak and Shill about villian just calling on the turn being scary for us.