Fun with JJ

brizzypare · #1 03-25-2005, 01:32 PM

$50 sng

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter

Hero (t915)
Button (t930)
SB (t880)
BB (t2250)
UTG (t1105)
UTG+1 (t545)
MP1 (t500)
MP2 (t2020)
MP3 (t855)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls t30, 1 fold, Hero raises to t120, 1 fold, SB calls t105, 1 fold, MP2 folds.

Flop: (t300) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t55, Hero ???

What do you usually do here? I think the best move is to raise to t150 and see what he does. It could just be a post oak bluff, but he could have a queen or a complete monster. Regardless, I have to figure out if I'm ahead. What do you do here?

Voltron87 · #2 03-25-2005, 02:22 PM

It's such a small bet I might just call it with position. If he checks the turn, check and call the river. If he bets you fold.

harmonjh · #3 03-25-2005, 02:22 PM

I think a raise is the correct play. The flop bet is pathetic, could be a baby pair in the hole. I've never played a 50 SNG, so not sure about the caliber of player.

Voltron87 · #4 03-25-2005, 02:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think a raise is the correct play. The flop bet is pathetic, could be a baby pair in the hole. I've never played a 50 SNG, so not sure about the caliber of player.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that it is a 50 doesn't rule out that he might have nothing.

Raiser · #5 03-25-2005, 02:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's such a small bet I might just call it with position. If he checks the turn, check and call the river. If he bets you fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this line.

t55 isn't a lot. You can call here without hurting yourself. If the turn is a blank and he bets again, then re-evaluate. Basically you are trying to see if he is willing to fire 2 (albeit, pathetically small) bullets. And, you might get lucky and spike your set.

I think the combination of: (1) you might be ahead, (2) he might be making a play on you, and (3) the very small chance that you make your set makes calling a good play here.

Voltron87 · #6 03-25-2005, 02:37 PM

The only way I would not berate someone for breaking my board domination (I had all the last replies on the first page) is if they were commenting on how beautiful my line was. nh.

pooh74 · #7 03-25-2005, 02:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think a raise is the correct play. The flop bet is pathetic, could be a baby pair in the hole. I've never played a 50 SNG, so not sure about the caliber of player.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that it is a 50 doesn't rule out that he might have nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree...this may be a leak for me, but for this flop with JJ, I am raising...if he comes back over I fold...if he bets on the turn, I either call (if its a similar smallish bet, depening on the card that came) or fold. (I most likely fold).

These size bets usually mean they have nothing, or real big strength (trying to entice a raise). If the latter, then a raise will at least let you know where u stand and I think it ends up being nothing most of the time to make raising on your part +EV in the long run.

say 20% of the time its a minbet with a monster, you raise his 50 to 150, that 1 time out of 5 you have to fold leaves you +EV...of course I made up that % but in my experience it seems semi accurate.

Furthermore, by just calling, you are allowing 1. him to draw, 2. leaking more chips on the next cards when you couldev found out more definitively where u stood on the flop.

p

Voltron87 · #8 03-25-2005, 02:41 PM

I don't see any benefit to raising. If you have him beat, how does raising beat calling?

pooh74 · #9 03-25-2005, 02:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see any benefit to raising. If you have him beat, how does raising beat calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I explained why above...but for obvious reasons. If you have him beat, then why not extract more money out of him? If you have him beat, why let him draw? If you're beat, then why not raise now, fold if you have to, instead of facing larger bets down the hand?

rickr · #10 03-25-2005, 03:00 PM

I'm betting any draw there if I'm villian. It's a blocking/information bet on the flop. Flat calling allows villian to dictate the cost to draw. Raising will let you know where you are = good. Flat calling allows good odds for drawing hands, and yours is a made hand, not a drawing hand = bad. If you are playing JJ for set value, why not follow the no set, no bet rule? Find out now where you stand and don't give up control of the hand.

Later,
Rick