FOXWOODS: 5-10 HAND

[CJC]

Hey again everybody..

I ventured up to Foxwoods this afternoon for a quick session and to meet MRB. It was a pleasure to meet MRB today. He is a very kind gentleman and I look forward to meeting up with him again in the future. ( Hopefully we will get a chance to speak for a little longer than we could today, I was only able to stay up there for a few hours )

Anywhoo, on to the poker..

I must say that I am EXTREMELY unhappy with my play today. ( probably very fortunate I could only stay a couple of hours [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] ) I can't remember the last time I played a session of poker that weak passive. ( what? me passive.. I know, unreal ) And my weak passive play showed in my results cause I donated a couple of stacks today in that short time, and I only have myself to blame for it..
Sometimes I need to remind myself not to play poker on 2 hours of sleep.. Doh....

Anywhoo..

I would like to talk about one of the 3 hands that I did win. ( yes only 3.. well 3 of significance anyway )
I know I'm kinda spoiling it here, but I think this hand is worth analyzing..

I'm also going to spread this post out over a few days so we can discuss (debate) each street thoroughly.

Here we go..

I am forced low with (Ad4c)4d and bring it in for $2.
Qs completes the bet to $5
7c and 5s fold.
10c calls
7h calls
Kh folds.

Action back to me and I throw three white chips to the felt.

4th street
-----------
10c pairs his doorcard with 10h and bets big $10 bet.
7h catches 8h and raises to $20
I am next to act with (Ad4c)4d 4h

Whats my play??

The Qs who raised third street caught 9s is to act after me.

Once again the boards and action are...

(xx)10c10h -- bets $10
(xx)7h8h -- raises $20
(Ad4c)4d4h -- ME
(xx)Qs9s

So once again what's my play? ( well I guess we know I at least called cause we know I won the hand.. but what would you have done?? )

This hand will get interesting..

CJ

[SittingBull]

fold or raise with this hand on 4th.
U would like some information about the 10's. early.
If he doesn't come over the top AFTER U raise him,then he probably does NOT have a set.
However,if he re-raises U,U should fold your hand.
If the 10's is NOT a loose player, U should fold.
If he plays many 3rd Str. hands,U should raise 4th.
There is less of a chance he has U beat.
U also want to discourage several overpairs from tagging along. If they choose to tag along,make them pay full price.


Happy pokering,
Sitting Bull
BTW,U played while U were on the "vacation mentality"--a poker disease acquired by some players away from home.
I believe this is the main reason y U dropped 2 racks.
But I know --U wanted to play anyway.
U did not come all that way just to sleep--U wanted to get some action because U did not have that much time to play---EVEN THOUGH U WERE DEAD TIRED-- What happened to your discipline??
Hmmmm
Just wondering
Sittng bull

[CJC]

only dropped 2 STACKS.. not racks.. If I had lost 2 racks in a 5-10 game in just a few hours I would never play poker again. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

I don't know about 'vacation mentality', but I sure as hell didn't take control of the betting like I normally do.

CJ

i would just call on fourth and try to raise later. in a bigger limit game with better players you may as well raise again since even by calling in this spot they will probably figure out your hand. not so at 5-10. if you raise you will probably lose the Q( and maybe even the paired tens and you dont want this to happen.

glad you won it because hands like this are very costly when you lose them.

Pat

There is no way that I would ever fold this hand.

I would most likely raise, because at this point it is a big pot and I don't want to give any cheap cards to anyone. If I was convinced I was beat, I would just call and chase for the full house.

If I reraised and made it 30 around, there is no way I am folding for another $10, even if the 10's showed me the third 10. At this point there will be approximately 100-120 in the pot for $10 more to me. Even if I was forced to call all the rest of the way (40 more) at this time, it would still be 40 to WIN 160 or I would be getting 4-1 odds on this pot. NO FOLD, NO WAY.

Well since you won folding is not right, [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img] but you are againt 2? flush draws or 1 flush and over pair with flush possibly and two higher pr's ( everything is higher than 4's)or set bigger than you, tough. this is a hand play to the end or quit right now. I would not take a card off. folding would be all right if you lossing a lot today ie... "cards running bad", bad night, but raising will make the flush stay to end and you will need to fill to win, you are getting odds to play if all four draw to end but if they do you must fill to win. feeling good [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] call, raising will not do you any good. lol [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

I am shocked that people are even considering folding this hand. Raise or call, but no matter what, you are in until the end unless opponent hits trip 10s or two open pair and gets raised. Otherwise, you are stuck in. That's it. No folding. No taking off one card and seeing what happens. Unless you have seeing eye glasses, one does not fold trips on 4th street in a 4 way raised pot like this. Period, the end. All this folding talk is way overanalyzing.

[Eric P]

folding is not too insane an idea here. Say you fill and 10's was a set, it's not too hard to imagine them filling too. I forget but if an ace is dead then it might actually be RIGHT to fold. either way you have to fill here to win if you are against the two (let's just assume) flush draws; not to mention one could be over pair with 3 to the flush. You may very well be winning but if not, you have a lot of catching up to do, and if you are you aren't too far ahead. IMO, raise and try to knock out the Q behind you, she can't be right to call unless there is a four flush... but there might be a four flush. People probably won't fold so i guess calling/folding is right. Although i would probably raise here 100% of the time in a live game.

I hate the reply that says to make it three bets and then fold immediately if the tens make it four bets. The pot odds make that play ridiculous. I am also bothered by the fact that no one mentions that the 87 suited may have trips. Folding is not wrong against some players. Both calling and raising mark you for trips so deception is not part of the equation here. The biggest argument for not folding is mathematical. You will fill up 40% of the time and a full house should win about half the time.

[SittingBull]

when U are not runnung well.
No big deal!
I generally lose about 30BB's when I'm not running well.
However,20%-30% of my losses are [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] due to BAD PLAY ON MY PART.

So , instead of going home losing 20BB,I go home losing 30BB's.

Hmmm
happy pokering,
Sitting Bull