11 Hands for the Bull (and CJ)

#1 10-11-2002, 09:16 AM

I'm reprising my post below -- with the following opinion. I've been playing 2-4 online with a .25 ante, a pretty similar structure to the 5-10 game described below. I've found that every one of the hands below, in an unraised pot, is a good hand to raise in most games. The only exception might be the trips, if I'm middle or later and there are no limpers.

Bull, I know this is much looser than you'd play. CJ, I expect it's more your style. What I've found is you get so much information, narrow the field and set up action on your big hands by raising alot that it's worth the relatively small fourth street raise in this structure. Limping in an unraised pot is almost never the right play imho.

Here's the set up again, Bull, thanks for responding to the first three and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the others. CJ likewise. And all other opinions are welcome as well, of course. (btw, I've changed the bring in to $2, which I believe is what it is at Foxwoods and Mohegan).

We're going to assume you're in a $5-10 game with a .50 ante and a $2 bring in. You're dealt the following eleven starting hands. What do you do with each and why (including how other cards out and betting would affect your choice):

(4-4) 4

(A-A) 10 rainbow

(10-A) A rainbow

(A-K) Q suited

(A-K) Q rainbow

(10-7) 3 suited

(6-6) 8 2-suited

(8-6) 6 2-suited

(7-J) J rainbow

(6-7) 8 2-suited

(6-7) 9 2- suited

CJC · #2 10-12-2002, 12:26 AM

Hello again MRB..

Of course I can't give any "exact" answers,as what we do in any given stud game is largely dependant on the game conditions and our opponents so I will speak generally.

The 3rd street hands....

(44)4 --I will generally limp in 1st or 2nd positions, raise in any later positions. If there are alot of power cards showing then I will pounce right away. You can make alot of money in 5-10 with rolled hands. ( you can also lose alot [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] )

Any hand that I have Aces I will generally raise/re-raise third. Whether or not they are hidden or split. EXCEPTION -- If I have completely dead cards and the game is really loose-aggressive..then they hit the muck ( generally )

(AK)Q suited --depends on how live my cards are. This is a hand I mix it up with. I might call,raise,re-raise or even Limp re-raise [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] ( see my 15-30 post from a few days ago ) Generally my position in the hand and the cards that are out will determain what I do with it.

AKQ unsuited - I will generally play it but when I do I am frequently raising or re-raising. I don't want to play this with alot of players.

(10-7)3 suited -- so long as my cards are live and I'm not in that aggressive of a game.. I'll play them.. I want the suit really live though. If I think its going to be more than 1 full bet on third though, they will hit the muck.

(7-J)J -- I normally raise if there aren't too many overcards to act behind me. If an overcard raises ahead of me ( by a player I can respect ) the cards hit the muck.

The fourth street hands.....

Without discussing any of the other cards that are in play, it is really difficult to say what we would (or should) do.. but I will say..

The small pair hands with the 3 flushes are generally playable for 1 bet ( and I often bet right out myself with these hands ) As long as you don't think you are against a monster ( you don't want to be against a set with this type of hand ),and your cards are live you can probably even call a raise with one of these hands. ( generally you will be getting odds in these games to do this ) What you don't want is to play one of these hands that you HAVE to improve heads-up. I WILL SAY ONE THING THOUGH-----you shouldn't be in these situations too often cause you shouldn't often be in on third with a pair of sixes with an 8 kicker.. but you knew that [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img]

The four-flushes are easy. You are generally going all the way with them. Betting and raising where appropriate. Just mix your play up with them.

I know these were 'quick' answers, but I'm at work. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Hope to see you Sunday at the 5-10 game.

CJ

SittingBull · #3 10-12-2002, 05:35 AM

Fold in a tight-aggressive game to a raise.
I would also fold in a loose-aggressive game.
I want to limp in with this hand . I would pay one full bet if the game were loose enough with several players calling the full bet. However,I would NOT cold call a bet and raise.

If all my cards were live,I would play this hand in a passive game because it would not cost much.

S [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] ince this hand needs a lot of improvement , I will not play it if it's too expensive.
If ANY of my cards were semi-dead,I would toss the hand --unless it is folded to me in late position--then I would raise to try to immediately take down the pot.

Happy pokering,
Sitting Bull
[img]/forums/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

#4 10-12-2002, 08:04 AM

CJ and Bull -- Thanks for your responses. CJ, there were no
fourth street hands, think you misread.

My feeling on all eleven is that it's good to be the aggressor in many game conditions. Of course you have to adjust depending on the other players. But in general, I actually think you add value to the marginal hands by raising.

CJC · #5 10-12-2002, 08:28 AM

SittingBull · #6 10-12-2002, 01:02 PM

with U about being more aggressive in an upper middle-limit or higher stakes game.
However,I disagree with U about showing aggression MOST of the time in a small stakes game with marginal hands.
Playing this way with the "little kids" is an excellent way to go home broke. Save MOST of these aggressive plays on your marginal hand when U play with the "big kids".
In poker,one is usually struggling to win the antes.
If there is NO ante or very little ante,I see no reason to "struggle".
In the bigger games with the "bigger kids",U have a nice size ante in which to struggle. Hence,being aggressive with MOST of your marginal hands IS correct since playing this way will improve your chances enough so that U might become a "money favorite".
Bob Ciaffone"the coach",addressed this issue of aggressiveness with marginal hands and under what condition(s) it should be applied.

Happy pokering,MRB!
Sitting Bull

SittingBull · #7 10-12-2002, 01:12 PM

This was simply a human error proving that U are NOT a computer.
But for awhile,I thought that U REALLY WERE a computer from your posts.LOL!
BTW,I [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] used to play with someone who's logic was so perfect that he outplayed me EVERY time we locked horns heads-up.
Boy! Am I glad I don't play with him anymore(LOL)!
Whew!

Sitting Bull

Andy B · #8 10-12-2002, 05:43 PM

(4-4) 4

I would raise unless I thought it likely that I would win only the antes by doing so. If I am the bring-in with this hand, I limp in and hope to re-raise.

(A-A) 10 rainbow

Raise, pretty much every time.

(10-A) A rainbow

Raise, pretty much every time. I will occasionally limp with Aces if seventeen people have limped in front of me, especially if my hand is not completely live.

(A-K) Q suited

Raise most of the time assuming my hand is reasonably live.

(A-K) Q rainbow

Raise if that will get me heads-up with, say, a smaller pair. Call most of the time otherwise.

(10-7) 3 suited

Limp if my hand is reasonably live. Call for one full bet, but usually not two, unless my hand is completely live and I know it's only going to be the two bets. Better not to get involved even then.

(6-6) 8 2-suited

Limp in for the bring-in. Maybe call a full bet if the raiser has a dead door card and my hand is extremely live.

(8-6) 6 2-suited

Limp in for the bring-in.

(7-J) J rainbow

Raise if it will thin the field substantially. Limp if not.

(6-7) 8 2-suited

Limp. Probably call a full bet but not like it.

(6-7) 9 2- suited

Limp only if 8s are completely live and other straight cards are pretty live too.