small pairs post flop?

[SenecaJim]

Pair of 4's in big blind, 4 ahead of me with a bump, I call. $50 in pot. Flop is rainbow 8 Q Q. I check, 3rd player bets. Fold or call for one bet. ( one sneaky player in but check raises have been on turn or river).

Pair of 2's in big blind, 5 players in with a bump from mp. I call. flop is 8 7 4 , two clubs. ( $60 in pot)Check with raiser making a bet. Fold or call. I folded in both situations ( and of course hit on turn on both) and both would have won with boat and trips respectively.

I know results shouldn't be given but natch increases my motivation for question. I know pot odds weren't enough, but on 4's ( one I felt more doubtful about) , are implied odds enought to warrant a call? Thanks for any help.

ps. should i have called bump in first place?

[otnemem]

I think the question in both would be leaning closer to fold or raise, not fold or call. Check raise and force out overcards. If it's three bet back to you, you'll have a better idea of where you stand.

[LImitPlayer]

Hand #1 - This is a fold or raise hand, I would probably fold here. If you had position and a higher pair I would probably raise here.

Hand #2 -Fold, anyone who pairs up with the board has you dominated and there is also a possible flush draw and a possible straight draw. You do not have the pot odds or the implied odds to call the flop for 1 bet.

There is also the possibility of hitting your 2 and it would have made someone the flush.