Odds and outs on the FLOP

[GrandmaStabone]

I am working on using bets as opposed to dollar amount to calculate odds. This new direction made me pick up TOP and SSHE and re-read some info on pot odds, expectation, equity, etc. I also have a chart from Lou Krieger from an article called "Pot Odds Made Easy" that I used when I first started my foray into intelligent poker (I actually have it taped to my monitor). My question seems decievingly simple, and I have probably just overcomlplicated it by thinking about it too much... Anyways, let's say for example I have a gut-buster on the flop (4 outs), my chart tells me that this means my odds of hitting it with the turn and river to come are 5.06-1 (meaning I need odds of more than 5 bets to one to call correct?). SO, does this mean my odds of hitting it are 5.06-1 to hit it ON THE NEXT CARD, or 5.06-1 if I carry it to the river?

Something else I was thinkng today, I have always wondered why so much text revolves around calculating odds on the turn, while all but ignoring them on the flop. I ralized today that this is because for most DECENT draws you usually have odds on the flop. Today I was in a pot with 5 ppl, caught a gut buster, SB bet out (giving me 6-1 on the 5.06-1 draw), so I called (which I normally would not have done) and hit it on the turn, raking a monster pot - was this a correct call?. On the turn however, the odds change drastically to 4.75 - 1, and I would not have been able to continue... AHHH, I know this is all pretty elementary, I think I have just been up too late today....... Comments?

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
I am working on using bets as opposed to dollar amount to calculate odds. This new direction made me pick up TOP and SSHE and re-read some info on pot odds, expectation, equity, etc. I also have a chart from Lou Krieger from an article called "Pot Odds Made Easy" that I used when I first started my foray into intelligent poker (I actually have it taped to my monitor). My question seems decievingly simple, and I have probably just overcomlplicated it by thinking about it too much... Anyways, let's say for example I have a gut-buster on the flop (4 outs), my chart tells me that this means my odds of hitting it with the turn and river to come are 5.06-1 (meaning I need odds of more than 5 bets to one to call correct?). SO, does this mean my odds of hitting it are 5.06-1 to hit it ON THE NEXT CARD, or 5.06-1 if I carry it to the river?

Something else I was thinkng today, I have always wondered why so much text revolves around calculating odds on the turn, while all but ignoring them on the flop. I ralized today that this is because for most DECENT draws you usually have odds on the flop. Today I was in a pot with 5 ppl, caught a gut buster, SB bet out (giving me 6-1 on the 5.06-1 draw), so I called (which I normally would not have done) and hit it on the turn, raking a monster pot - was this a correct call?. On the turn however, the odds change drastically to 4.75 - 1, and I would not have been able to continue... AHHH, I know this is all pretty elementary, I think I have just been up too late today....... Comments?

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I think you need to reread the books...

A gutshot is slightly more than 10-1 to hit on the next card. The 5-1 odds you are talking about are only when you count both the turn and the river together. This is only applicable if you know you are going to see both the turn and the river (usually it's because you're contemplating calling an all-in bet on the flop; or when the pot odds are so huge that you'll be correct to call on the turn also).

Most texts use the turn as examples because there is only one more card to come. You don't have to worry about calculating odds for 2 cards, you only look at "will the next card win for me or not". It just simplifies the teaching.

[rewt75]

If it makes you feel any better, I've been playing for 8 months not realizing this until this thread was born. I've always been assuming that the flop odds were just to call a flop bet. Jesus.

I think I found a leak.

[imported_Robert Andersson]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />


I think I found a leak.

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Might be so mate! But one good thing with it is that there are a lot of players out there who will never realize....

/Robert