Would you have made this chop?- heads up tourney final table

[snowbank]

Final table of heads up tourney- $1228 left in prize pool. He asks to chop, which would have been $614 a piece. I say I am the favorite so I want more. He offers $650 I ask for $675 he says no. Would you have taken $650?

A few minutes later when support got there so we could talk it over I had build a chip lead: I had like 125,000 he had about 70,000. He offered $675 and I said I needed more. Would you have taken this one? Pretend you are a favorite with this chip lead, how do you calculate if the chop is worth it?

[gasgod]

I would take the simple approach. Take the difference between first and second, and pro-rate it according to stack size.

For example, if first pays $800, and second pays $428, the calculation is: 125/195 x (800-428) = $238. By this formula, you should get $428 + 238 or $666 (Scary thought!)

Sounds like his offer was a fair one.


GG

[LethalRose]

I think the way to do this is to do a chop based on chip stacks.

basically, you both get 2nd place money. then the remaining prize pool is divided between you 2 depending on the % of chips you have.


in this case you have 64% of the remaining chips, so you would get 64% of the remaining prize pool leaving him with the rest. If he doesnt accept this i say you play


me personally, i dont chop

[snowbank]

I think the way to do this is to do a chop based on chip stacks.

I'm an idiot. The last time I was going to chop I was going to do something like this, but totally forgot. Damn, where were you when I needed you!?

[logogg]

Chopping is weak. Why would you even consider playing in a tournament that long, building up a chip lead heads up, and then saying ... "Nah, let's both win today!!"

It defeats the purpose of the game. I love when people suggest a chop. I politely say no and then take advantage of the weakness they've just shown.

[SoBeDude]

You have a sizeable chip advantage. If you think you're the better player, I'd just play it out.

Also, I'd be more inclined to chop if the money was substantial, like 100 grand. Chopping for a couple hun when you're probably the better player and have the chip lead is silly. The valuable Heads-up final table experience alone is worth more than the diff between 2nd and chop value.

-Scott

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
Chopping is weak. Why would you even consider playing in a tournament that long, building up a chip lead heads up, and then saying ... "Nah, let's both win today!!"

It defeats the purpose of the game. I love when people suggest a chop. I politely say no and then take advantage of the weakness they've just shown.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand why people believe this but let me first share my own experience and then offer a thought.

Stars 350K.

When it gets down to 15 people, someone makes the joking suggestion that we chop. I say, well, no, but why not take 2K off the table for each of us by reducing the payout to the top three. Of course, no takers.

Down to nine - someone says "does anyone want to talk about a chop?" I say, "well, no, but I'd love to take some money off the table." After some silence, I start to get the feeling that they are all afraid to be the first to agree to this!!! Finally someone (call him Mr. X) puts an end to it by saying, "there will be no chop as long as I am here." Ok, so be it.

Down to 3. Mr.X is still in it (and playing well). We are now playing for $66K (diff btwn 1st and 3rd) Just before a break, Mr.X and Mr.Y both go all-in on a 3-card flush board. Mr. X loses with a ten-high flush to Mr. Y's Jack high flush. Chip counts are now 4M for yours truly, 2M for Mr.Y and 400K for Mr.X. Even though I believe that I am the superior player with a commanding chip lead... we are playing for $66K!!! Once again, I offer to take 2K off of first to pad it to 3rd. Once again, I am refused.

To me, I was hedging my bets by taking money off the biggest final table I'd ever seen. I don't care that I'm likely to be giving my 1st place prize money to the 3rd place finisher - what if I'm the one with the ten high flush next hand? As for strength/weakness - how arrogantly weak is it for Mr.X to continue to refuse the new pay structure I offered? Also, I felt like I was the best player there. I had already developed strategies for facing each one of these players heads up, and I was looking forward to the opportunity. I'm not about to agree to a full chop here (even one based on chip stacks), my odds of winning are greater than the differences in chip stacks (thanks to my incredible poker skills and winning smile), but this is $66K here!!!!

This is not just a contest to find out who is the best, it is also one that gives cash rewards to those who finish well. I think it is foolish to ignore cash concerns just to weakly protect your own self-image as "the best poker player ever". Also, you must recognize the weakness in being afraid to discuss a chop. One more thing, don't underestimate your opponents who are willing to talk - it may be that they are less effected by the stress of the final table (not true in my case) and more used to this situation.

When the prize is of large value to you, consider asking for at least a partial chop. I watched a friend play a final table HU where the payouts were something like 4400 and 2700. Though I thought him to be the better player, he was eager to take a 50/50 chop as it was the biggest pay day he'd ever had and that extra garuanteed $850 was a lot of money.

Final thought: we play poker (some of us anyway) for two reasons: To be the best, and to make money. When you make a big final table, don't forget either of these reasons.

CSC