20-40 NL HAND

[D.J.]

This hand happened a few weeks ago during the commerce tournament but it still bugs me...

I'm UTG w/ K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and I raise to $150 ($7000 in front), folded around to button who seems to be a solid player, and is waiting for the $400-800 game. He makes it $500 to go and he has me well covered, I call. Flop comes

J-7-3 Rainbow

I check he bets $1000 I call, turn brings a 5 still no flush draw, I check he bets $1500 I fold. How would you have played it?

-D.J.

[freemoney]

I fold pre to his raise playin oop against a real solid player, but i would lead this flop to get a better idea where you are at i think.

[riverboatking]

1)fold preflop

playing KJ out of position heads up with deep stacks, vs a solid player is a pretty bad idea.

ps. i really hate it when someone posts a hand asking for advice and all they get is "fold preflop" replies, however in this case its really the best advice you'll get.

that being said, his bet on the turn does seem a little weak.
have you seen him play any other hands like this?
some players love making the weak bets with strong hands to induce a checkraise, however the alternative is it could be a preemptive blocking bet in position.

by that i mean, he knows that if he checks the turn there is a good chance you'll come out swinging on the river and so he could be making this bet with a hand like 10-10 to avoid being bluffed out on the river.

i think in these kinds of situations its very difficult to give any real advice other then the standard don't play KJ HU out of position for a raise, because so much of deep stack live play is read dependent.

and if you don't feel comfortable making these kinds of reads on the turn and river, then don't play hands which require that you do so.

[Usagi_yo]

I would ever call a re-raise with KQ or KJ against somebody I considered solid -- unless I had a read that said medium pocket pair.

After that I would have lead the flop for about 800 and hope I take it right there.

[LotsOfOuts69]

The problem is that at no point do you get any information from him. You are showing alot of weakness and are just a calling station at this point. You have to raise him at some point otherwise he will keep running you over, a raise on the flop would let you better know where you're at. He'll either slow down or come over the top and then you can fold.

--LoO

[D.J.]

I understand what you are saying about folding pre-flop, I know it's a trap hand, and I know I'm also not playing the hand to hit a king or jack, I just really hated the way I played the hand because I never took a stand and just got to the point where I didn't want to invest any more money into the hand.

-D.J.

[Ulysses]

With these stack sizes, I'd probably limp KJs UTG if I were going to play it.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand what you are saying about folding pre-flop, I know it's a trap hand, and I know I'm also not playing the hand to hit a king or jack, I just really hated the way I played the hand because I never took a stand and just got to the point where I didn't want to invest any more money into the hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is almost exactly the reasoning why I would limp if I felt it was +EV to see a flop with this hand. If I raise and someone makes a standard re-raise, then I can't really do anything post-flop without getting in a sticky pot-size situation.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i don't mind playing this UTG, but i'd only do it for a limp and encourage a limpfest.

that said i don't like calling the re-raise preflop as others have said.

[Ray Zee]

seeing as you called the grand i would also call the 1500 for sure. i cant imagine folding here.