Official PTO (PokerTrackerOmaha) Rating rules for PLO8 thread

[fat_nutz]

A friend and I are have been trying to get a feel for some appropriate range of PTO stats for autorating & self-check purposes, in POT-LIMIT O8.

Problem is, after 60k hands, the HE tried-and-true stats don't seem to have the greatest correlation to a player's win rate in PLO8.

Take VPIP for example. My VPIP is around 33%, and I win at a rate of 5BB/hr on average, which I consider to be decent, but not optimal. Other winning players have VPIP as high as 55% (!) and as low as 15%.
Another example--PFR for me is right around 6%. Other successful players have PFR's up to as much as 20%, and as low as 0-1%. The only reliable tell I've gotten out of PTO so far is that for those 0-1% PFR folks, a PF raise is virtually always an AAxx hand.

When you look at VPIP, PFR, and win rate together, you begin to get a decent picture of the type of player. If you see a winning LAG or tight player, you maybe know that player is wild PF but generally makes good decisions post-flop. Likewise, if a LAG is a losing player, you know his PF action is weak, and if a tight player has a losing win rate, you maybe know you can bluff him in certain post-flop situations.

Anyway, to summarize, I'm a little frustrated at this point because it seems like PLO8 enables a much wider range of statistical playing styles to be winning/losing playing styles. I suspect that the true key is basically making good decisions post-flop, but I don't have a good feel for how to score this statistically using PTO.

So, I'm throwing it open and hoping to generate a good discussion here.

Again, please keep in mind that this is POT-LIMIT O8.

[Prelude008]

I am a newbie to the omaha forms. This is my first time here (I play holdem). Is there a poker tracker for omaha/8. Any info is greatly appreciated. I am playing 3-6 omaha now because I've been running badly in Hold Em. Thanks.

[BradleyT]

[ QUOTE ]
I am a newbie to the omaha forms. This is my first time here (I play holdem). Is there a poker tracker for omaha/8. Any info is greatly appreciated. I am playing 3-6 omaha now because I've been running badly in Hold Em. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

PTO

[Prelude008]

Great, Thanks for the info.

[blingice]

So you're saying that preflop raises come from AA?
Don't play O8 like Hold'em or even Omaha. I would not see the flop for big money in O8 with AAXX. However, I am surprised that the majority of the raises don't come from hands like A2XX or A23X. A23X, according to Phil Hellmuth, hits @ 40%. These are really good hands. I suppose I would see the flop with AAXX. In fact, I really don't know since I haven't played a hand of O8 in my life. Although I have read part of Phil Hellmuth's section on it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[JoshuaMayes]

Did you read his post? He wasn't saying that he raises AA all the time. He said that players who only raise 0-1% of their hands preflop in PLO8 usually have AAxx when they raise. He is almost certainly correct. It is even more likely that they have AA with a wheel card.

[JoshuaMayes]

I have been trying to work out rating rules for PLO8 as well. I have 4000 of my own hands + a ton of observed hands that I have mined while sleeping.

So far the most useful indicators of poor play seem to be went to showdown %, and won $ at showdown %. Players with went to showdown %> 35 are definitely making poor post-flop decisions. Similarly, players who win $ at showdown less than 60% of the time are calling too much.

I, like you, have noticed that players can be successful playing either loosely or tightly preflop. However, VPIP> 50 is usually syptomatic of a total lack of discipline and/or knowledge of the game. Most of the players with VPIP>50 are huge calling stations. But I have noticed a few good LAG players who win despite having high VPIP.

Preflop agression seems to be a poor indicator of player skill, as does total aggro. Although most of the biggest fish have very low total aggro rates.

I suspect that the "scoop" and "won high"/"won low" stats will be helpful, but I haven't taken the time to dig through those yet.

Anyway, here are some of my stats so far: 8BB/100; VPIP 20; PF raise 1.5; TAGRO 2; Went to showdown 20; Won $ at showdown 70.