Set List Music Question

Cornell Fiji · #1 03-07-2005, 04:03 PM

I'm a music lover but never played any instrument...

Does a band like Phish or the Grateful Dead plan their set list out before they go on stage or do they just improvise?

If they do plan it out before they go on stage do they plan the times that they will start a song, go into another song, and then come back and finish the first song or is that improvised?

Thanks,
Steve

turnipmonster · #2 03-07-2005, 04:12 PM

I'm not sure about those two bands, but most bands write out a set list preshow (I would guess GD and phish did also but maybe not). some do it literally right before they go on, and some keep the same setlist night after night. usually medley type things are planned, but occasionally improvised, usually it's easy to tell the difference. the larger the band, the more likely it is everything is planned out.

generally in music you have a lot of improvisation in certain sections (guitar solo, endings, intros, etc) and structure in other places (the chorus comes after the first verse, etc). sometimes bands have musical cues that they play to each other that tell them what to do next.

--turnipmonster

PeeWeeH · #3 03-07-2005, 04:12 PM

Phish play songs?

PeeWee

Cornell Fiji · #4 03-07-2005, 04:45 PM

Yea, I know a band like Bon Jovi is not too origional and will play the same set list the same way 100 shows in a row. I was talking more about bands who will give you a vastly different show every time that they take the stage...

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure about those two bands, but most bands write out a set list preshow (I would guess GD and phish did also but maybe not). some do it literally right before they go on, and some keep the same setlist night after night. usually medley type things are planned, but occasionally improvised, usually it's easy to tell the difference. the larger the band, the more likely it is everything is planned out.

generally in music you have a lot of improvisation in certain sections (guitar solo, endings, intros, etc) and structure in other places (the chorus comes after the first verse, etc). sometimes bands have musical cues that they play to each other that tell them what to do next.

--turnipmonster

[/ QUOTE ]

Victor · #5 03-07-2005, 05:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Does a band like Phish or the Grateful Dead plan their set list out before they go on stage or do they just improvise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jam bands like Phish and the Dead do both. Sometimes it is all planned out like when Phish would cover entire albums or if its an acoustic set.

Usually its partially planned out. The band has a couple songs in mind and usually starts the set with them. Eventually they go into a jam and see where it takes them. If you are familiar with their music you can often hear the band battling to go in different directions. So the drummer and guitarist want to play one song and you can hear the riff but the rest of the band is going in for a diff song. Eventually they come together and it sounds it can super cool. Or it can sound like [censored], thats the cool part I guess.

DcifrThs · #6 03-07-2005, 05:25 PM

for the most part you are right...

but phish and the dead rarely if EVER let a battle to play in different directions get to the point of sounding like s.hit. further, they sometimes have a feeling for a show planned and go out there and play a song or two and let the audience react...if its jiving with the feeling they have they continue or they go down a different road...i've seen trey on acid forget lyrics to major songs and then come out of nowhere with a great "idea" to go through a different type of set and page and mike and jon go all out iwth him...

they also convene onstage (phish) a lot to see what they want to play next or while playing the current song..

the dead was a bit more planned (or maybe not) one would think due to the sheer number of people on stage...but they were also arguably more accustomed to improv etc...either way i dont know as much about the dead as i do phish...

but i do know they both rule.

-Barron

PS- im on a "the other ones" song kick right now..."escaping through the lily fields, i came across an empty space...trembled and exploded left a bus stop in its place...the bus drove by and i got on thats when it all began"

lucas9000 · #7 03-07-2005, 05:43 PM

for the majority of the time, the dead planned out their first sets, and did some pre-planning as to second sets. since the early 80s, dead set lists were fairly routine for both sets (eg, bobby cowboy song and then big jerry song to end first set, slow song as the second out of space, etc.).

as for phish, they did plan their set lists (they would look at what they'd played recently, what they played last time they were in the area, etc), and trey looked at it as a way to compose on a nightly basis. there was definitely room to deviate though (eg, 6/22/95 second set, 5/7/94 second set, etc.). maybe in their earliest days the dead went out with no set list, but i doubt they did it even then.

lucas9000 · #8 03-07-2005, 05:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you are familiar with their music you can often hear the band battling to go in different directions. So the drummer and guitarist want to play one song and you can hear the riff but the rest of the band is going in for a diff song. Eventually they come together and it sounds it can super cool. Or it can sound like [censored], thats the cool part I guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

a good example of this is phish's 11/22/95 jam out of free, where fishman starts playing the bouncing around the room drum beat, but the rest of the band forges on. some great music in there. also phish's 7/13/94 second set where they play sing a number of their songs to the music of other songs, and when they intertwine one song with another, going back and forth. there was a great david bowie that went back and forth between itself and catapult from '90 i think, i can't recall the exact date. phish used to pwn.

lucas9000 · #9 03-07-2005, 05:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the dead was a bit more planned (or maybe not) one would think due to the sheer number of people on stage...but they were also arguably more accustomed to improv etc...either way i dont know as much about the dead as i do phish...

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in their latter years the grateful dead setlists were extremely planned and formulaic. i don't think this was due to the number of people so much as a lack of enthusiasm/creativity.

Macdaddy Warsaw · #10 03-07-2005, 07:30 PM

It really depends on the artist. I saw Ratatat on Thursday and it's pretty obvious they have their set planned out far in advance (they have a projector and a floodlight coordinated with the beat machine). I'm going to an Of Montreal concert next month and I fully expect that they're just going to go nuts and play whatever.

I think the giveaway is when the lead singer/guitarist looks down at a piece of paper on the floor. That usually means they wrote a setlist. Although even bands who do this (like Ted Leo last time I saw him) will have some gaps for a request. They never do Bridges, Squares though.