Stop N Go...Using An Agressive Player To Protect My Aces

pokerkai · #1 03-04-2005, 02:32 PM

Zero reads as this is literally my first hand at the table.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 4 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (20.66 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (14.33 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (26.33 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: 29.33 BB

chief444 · #2 03-04-2005, 02:45 PM

I'm either 3-betting the flop or check/raising the turn. I'd have to be very confident UTG would bet for option B.

jskills · #3 03-04-2005, 02:53 PM

I think you really need to 3-bet the flop here. Maybe MP2 might fold to 2-bets cold on the turn this way?

Otherwise, you did all you could on every street to prevent this suckout by the straight.

pokerkai · #4 03-04-2005, 03:39 PM

So you guys feel that pumping my value is more important then trying to face the field with 2 BBs cold on the turn?

I took this line because I felt that it gave me the best oppurtunity to knock people out which would make up for any value I lost from raising the flop. I also felt that any hand UTG was willing to cap preflop 5 ways, was very likely worth raising one bet on the turn, so I was pretty confident there.

belloc · #5 03-04-2005, 03:40 PM

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I'm either 3-betting the flop or check/raising the turn. I'd have to be very confident UTG would bet for option B.

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This hand resembles the example in Ed's book where Hero holds KK and there is a 4 or 5 way cap preflop. (IIRC, it's in "Protecting your hand" under "When the pot is extremely large".)

I think I remember that in Ed's hand, you have immediate position on the preflop capper, so you know that by just calling on the flop, you can get a raise in right behind him on the turn, and face the field with worse odds than you could have on the flop.

Two questions:

1. Do you agree with Ed's play in the book?

2. If so, is the principal difference between this hand and that one the relative position to the capper, or is there some other reason you'd not wait for the turn to put in your raises in this hand?

chief444 · #6 03-04-2005, 03:50 PM

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2. If so, is the principal difference between this hand and that one the relative position to the capper, or is there some other reason you'd not wait for the turn to put in your raises in this hand?

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Yeah. You can't raise when you're first to act. You can't be sure the opponent will raise for you.

chief444 · #7 03-04-2005, 03:53 PM

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So you guys feel that pumping my value is more important then trying to face the field with 2 BBs cold on the turn?

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I do.

I also think I would bet this river. It's a scary board but there's a pretty reasonable chance no one has a 5 or T.

pokerkai · #8 03-04-2005, 04:11 PM

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So you guys feel that pumping my value is more important then trying to face the field with 2 BBs cold on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
I do.

I also think I would bet this river. It's a scary board but there's a pretty reasonable chance no one has a 5 or T.

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It was a frustration check, I relized that afterwards.

private joker · #9 03-04-2005, 04:16 PM

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I also think I would bet this river. It's a scary board but there's a pretty reasonable chance no one has a 5 or T.

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But 98 and 87 also beat him; with the action on the turn and the callers he got, this river is a good place for a weeping check-call.

I like this hand all the way through. If you 3-bet the flop, chances are people will be more likely to call 2 cold on the turn. I like the way you used him to face the field with 2, and it just sucks that they didn't fold like the lemmings they should be. Nice hand, bad result.

pokerkai · #10 03-04-2005, 04:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2. If so, is the principal difference between this hand and that one the relative position to the capper, or is there some other reason you'd not wait for the turn to put in your raises in this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah. You can't raise when you're first to act. You can't be sure the opponent will raise for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we can infer that he will raise. Hes raising UTG and capping what is most assuredly going to be a five handed hand. Furthermore, hes willing to raise his hand into the field on the flop. He either A) obviously likes his hand B) is a maniac

I just think that given this scenario, the utg raise often enough to be a good play...even if a bit unorthodox...but obviously i have my doubts as well since im posting this.