86s in the SB

hate · #1 03-04-2005, 01:04 AM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Button calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 raises, Button 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

River: (16.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

Turn cap was sort of an accident. UTG+2 was a fish, 30%VP$IP postflop aggro .8 or so. Button was a sLAP, but he'd lost a quantity of money over the past 10 hands, and it looked to me like he was perhaps tilting.

JoshuaD · #2 03-04-2005, 01:12 AM

I can't tell if you should cap or fold this turn. Any reads?

JoshuaD · #3 03-04-2005, 01:14 AM

The more I think about this, the more I think it's read specific.

If the 3-bettor on the turn is kinda laggy, I'm capping. If he's passive, I'm folding.

Willluck · #4 03-04-2005, 01:27 AM

folding is a bad play even if you are way behind, you have 15 outs to a straight or a flush, and a straight flush, and you have 1 out to a full house (1 because it's probably a split pot). so about a 35% pot equity. folding is a TERRIBLE PLAY! you have to at least call.

jt1 · #5 03-04-2005, 01:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
folding is a bad play even if you are way behind, you have 15 outs to a straight or a flush

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't fold because I don't how to fold, but I'm not sure if it's a terrible or an excellent play. The 3 bet either indicates trips, a boat or a straight. I'd say that about half the time someone's got at least a straight which means that 6 of your outs are tainted or you're drawing dead.

Willluck · #6 03-04-2005, 01:40 AM

well if he does have a straight than i would say only 3 are tainted because you are either drawing to a split or a better hand.

jt1 · #7 03-04-2005, 01:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
well if he does have a straight than i would say only 3 are tainted because you are either drawing to a split or a better hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you can count 2 or 3 straight outs and 4 flush outs (I'm just guessing)3 outs to the boat and 2 to the st. flush. So 12 outs to call getting 6-1 odd direct with a possibility of capping which would make it 4-1. I guess you're okay to call, but I'm just guessing about the number of outs you have

Etric · #8 03-04-2005, 02:35 AM

have an open ended straight flush draw + any 8 for outs. I believe you have a pot equity edge. Cap for value.

jt1 · #9 03-04-2005, 02:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
have an open ended straight flush draw + any 8 for outs. I believe you have a pot equity edge. Cap for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some of those outs are tainted, so capping for value is not automatic.

hate · #10 03-04-2005, 02:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
have an open ended straight flush draw + any 8 for outs. I believe you have a pot equity edge. Cap for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think here I can assume I've got perhaps 1 out for the flush, 2 outs for the straight flush, 2 outs for the 8, and 1 out for the 5. Outs calculations were wild for me, at the time I had fully counted my outs, which seems like a big mistake to me, but this hand is so complex outs-wise that I'm still sitting here befuddled. I now think the cap was a mistake, but a call was warranted.