Influencing Play Rule

I am just wondering about all your thoughts in this Rule. Recently many players have been calling hands that they do not have like saying they have 2 pair when they are on a draw and saying they have a pair when they have a monster. Either increasing or decreasing their expectation. Most casinos have a non influencing the play rule. I am just wondering if you think of this non influencing the play rule. Should they allow it or not. Do you think calling out hands you do not have has any place in poker. Should the rule be changed. Should we be able to say anything at a poker game. I have always been taught from the backroom players I respected that if I had to use this type of strategy that I should not be playing poker. But has times changeg should the rule be changed.

[Clarkmeister]

Allowing miscalling of hands is bad simply because it very likely intimidates and potentially embarasses novice players.

As far as I'm concerned its angle shooting, plain and simple.

[PokerBabe(aka)]

Hi Hosh- long time no see. How are u? [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I am not 100% clear on the rule you described, but I don't see how one can prevent a player from talking. I think lying is still allowed in poker. I do agree with Clarkmeister that there is NO NEED to behave poorly, but intimidating and embarassing players happens all the time, and if it's part of a "strategy" or an "angle shoot", well...that is just poker. On the other hand, I agree that this calling out of hands can certainly present a dilemma to ANY player, and can be seen as "influencing play". Perhaps you would prefer that one simply "influence" with chips rather than words.......BUT is that all there is to poker? Some of the greatest poker players use verbal remarks to "influence play". Shall we now say there is "no talking" in poker? [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] PokerBabe.

[bernie]

some people, mostly the fogies, use that same argument against checkraising. ive heard it many times from the old farts.

noone is forcing any player to take them at their word. kind of like a bluff bet. if theyre in the hand, i dont mind it. if theyre out of the hand, then they shouldnt be allowed to say anything about the hand. only the players involved.

btw. i never talk about my hand during the hand, but if someone wants to yap at me who's in the hand, that yap, tone or speech patten, can give you some information about their hand. not necesarily what theyre saying, but how theyre saying it. and it's great when it backfires on em.

b

[Tommy Angelo]

Artichoke Joe's has a rule left over from lowball days that I've never seen anywhere else. If you overcall your hand (state that you have a better hand than you actually do) and the opponent mucks his hand, and you cannot produce a hand at least as good as announced, your opponent gets the pot. (You are allowed to undercall your hand.)

The right way to play the showdown at AJ's is, as soon as the opponent says a hand that beats yours, muck. Fast.

I think this is a good rule.

Tommy

[Clarkmeister]

[Ray Zee]

if its at the showdown its illegal. during the play of the hand its just poker talk, and nothing wrong with that.

[D. Andrew]

...but I don't see how one can prevent a player from talking.
Easy, make a rule against it. Penalize those who break the rule.

I think lying is still allowed in poker.
Just because it is accepted in public poker rooms, does not mean that is is allowed in all poker places. I'm sure many home games do not allow lying.

...that is just poker.
I don't buy it at all.

Shall we now say there is "no talking" in poker?
Yes. There should be no talking during the play of a hand.

Just because something has been done for a long time does not make it right.

[Jimbo]

D. Andrew commented as below:

...but I don't see how one can prevent a player from talking.
Easy, make a rule against it. Penalize those who break the rule. It might be more useful to suggest a feasible penalty to implement in these circumstances. I cannot think of any can you?

I think lying is still allowed in poker.
Just because it is accepted in public poker rooms, does not mean that is is allowed in all poker places. I'm sure many home games do not allow lying. You are kidding here right? Like, "There's no crying in baseball."


...that is just poker.
I don't buy it at all. At least the price is right.

Shall we now say there is "no talking" in poker?
Yes. There should be no talking during the play of a hand. And you justify this how? We are not talking about golfers on the putting green here.

Just because something has been done for a long timedoes not make it right. Finally something I agree with completely!!

Perhaps I interpreted the original post somewhat differently than some of the responders. I am assuming that during the hand before showdown someone makes a statement such as "I have the nuts" or "I cannot believe I missed this hand." Why would this elicit a penalty, perhaps he just overlooked his hand or the board or both. Now if you mean at the showdown lying about your hand in order to get a player to muck a winner then in my opinion that becomes an angle which should not be tolerated by whoever is running the game but is probably allowed unless explicitly forbidden in the posted rules.

Jimbo

[Ulysses]

A few months ago at AJs I had AKh against a habitual angle-shooter's AdKs. Flop comes two low hearts and one diamond. Turn is a rag diamond. River comes a last rag diamond. I had put my opponent correctly on AK or AQ and bet the river. He raises. I'm pretty confident he doesn't have a pair and he definitely doesn't have the flush, but I don't think he'll lay down, so I just call. He says "FLUSH" as he turns over and I turbo-muck. The player didn't object as I was pushed the pot, since he "knew he was beat" when I called his raise.