5/5 live hand

TXTiger · #1 02-22-2005, 03:13 PM

I'm a no limit newbie so any comments appreciated. 5/5 blinds. 2 or 3 limpers to me otb with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I make it 30. New SB calls, BB who calls way too many raises but built a big stack by doing so calls. This is a 300 buy in game; I have about 375, BB has about 800. He's way too loose preflop, tries to play decent postflop but still pretty loose. He's been making a lot of big bets recently and talking about how he can throw money around since he's the big stack. Flop is 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Checked to me and I bet 50. Sb folds, BB mumbles about getting people off of draws and raises to 130. So what should I do? I'll put in the results later. And if the sb had called would that change your answer.

schwza · #2 02-22-2005, 03:50 PM

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I'm a no limit newbie

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5/5 blinds

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

as for the hand, i'd push. you've got a monster draw out of position, and it might be hard for you to get the money in if you hit. push now, and you're a favorite to everything but a set/straight, and you're not in terrible shape to either of those. you should have a lot of fold equity as well.

Tilt · #3 02-22-2005, 03:58 PM

Ive never seen a game where SB = BB.

As for your play, I'd just look at him and say "FU" as I shove it all in. Even if you are crashing into 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] you are still 25% to win. And the odds are good he has squat.

kurto · #4 02-22-2005, 04:00 PM

"Sb folds, BB mumbles about getting people off of draws and raises to 130."

I'm not sure what I make of this as a tell. Is this a prod for info or is he betting because he has the best hand and he's letting you know he know's you're on a draw?

I can't decide if he's saying this to induce you to call or to fold.

parttimepro · #5 02-22-2005, 06:08 PM

Check behind on the flop. What hand will he call your bet with that you beat? What card are you afraid of on the turn? And generally, you shouldn't bluff calling stations.

After the checkraise, unless he's very passive, I put him on a set. Medium overpairs would bet more to push out overcards, and big overpairs would probably reraise preflop.

You can't fold here; you've got immediate odds to make a flush on the turn. I don't like a push, because there's a pretty good chance he's got a set, and in any case you don't have much folding equity. I'd say call and possibly fold to a push on the turn.

DrPublo · #6 02-22-2005, 06:32 PM

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Check behind on the flop. What hand will he call your bet with that you beat?

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Definitely DON'T check behind on the flop. A few reasons:

Sometimes you pick up a pretty nice pot there with just A-high. This will happen more than you think it does.

When you don't pick up the pot and someone plays back at you, the majority of your equity in this case comes with 2 cards to come. If you get all in here, you're a favorite over pairs up to QQ and are better than 25% against a set because you have the wheel gutshot as well. The absolute worst case for you is exactly 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and even then you have 5 outs.

I'm willing to get all in with this hand in a heartbeat. Your opponent too often has a pair between, say, 55 and TT that he's trying to take the pot with. Given the amount of money already in the pot, you win more than your fair share.

The Doc

TheWorstPlayer · #7 02-22-2005, 06:40 PM

I agree completely. Your goal should be either to get it all in on the flop or to get to the river cheaply. Both goals can be accomplished by betting on the flop. I would much rather see the river for free than the turn. On the flop, I have a lot of equity. Also, who the heck raises preflop and then checks the flop? That just looks exceedingly weird and is always either nothing or an absolute monster (very unlikely here). If you bet the flop and he calls, then you know you are likely to be behind and you can check behind on the turn to try to hit your draw for free on the river. If he raises the flop, you push when you have the advantage over middle pairs and a lot of equity against whatever he has. If he folds the flop, you take the pot. I don't see how betting the flop can possibly hurt you here.

parttimepro · #8 02-22-2005, 07:27 PM

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who the heck raises preflop and then checks the flop?

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You never do that? I usually make continuation bets too, but this is the perfect example of when not to. You're not heads up. You have a lot of outs to the nuts. You almost certainly need to improve to win. There are basically no scare cards for you. If you check and one of the blinds bets the turn, you'll see the river for about the same price as you would have raised on the flop.

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you push when you have the advantage over middle pairs and a lot of equity against whatever he has.

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You're not that big a favorite. You have $165 more into a pot of $360 against a loose opponent, so you have basically no fold equity. Assume BB has a pocket pair between 22-TT (higher would have reraised pf). You're a 2:1 dog against 22-44, you're a 3:2 dog vs. 55, 1:1 against 66, and 3:2 favorite against 77-TT. So if you think he'd bet any of these hands this way, you're about even or slightly behind. I think an even distribution is not very likely. A small check/raise is much more likely to be a set than a small pocket pair.

I definitely want to see another card for free.

grouchie · #9 02-22-2005, 07:33 PM

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I'm a no limit newbie so any comments appreciated. 5/5 blinds. 2 or 3 limpers to me otb with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I make it 30. New SB calls, BB who calls way too many raises but built a big stack by doing so calls. This is a 300 buy in game; I have about 375, BB has about 800. He's way too loose preflop, tries to play decent postflop but still pretty loose. He's been making a lot of big bets recently and talking about how he can throw money around since he's the big stack. Flop is 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Checked to me and I bet 50. Sb folds, BB mumbles about getting people off of draws and raises to 130. So what should I do? I'll put in the results later. And if the sb had called would that change your answer.

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Preflop, make the bet bigger than $30.
$30 preflop in the 5/5 games I play in usually means that you are just splashing the pot with a marginal holding, maybe low PP or TJ suited, things like that.
AK suited is easily $50 preflop, and you allready said that there is someone calling lots of pre-flop raises.

On the flop I'd bet near the pot when checked to me and if still re-raised I'd go all in.
Your hand has TONS of outs. If he has trips he calls, if he has just an overpair he will likely fold.

At least this is how I would play at my local casino.

neuroman · #10 02-22-2005, 07:46 PM

I like parttimepro's analysis. I'd be pretty suspicious of a set as well, especially with him muttering like that. Like he said, the main reason not to push is because you're quite likely behind and don't have much fold equity. Call the $80 to take another card, if you make your flush, push, if you don't, fold to any turn bet that's not pricing you in for the river flush.