QKo trouble

Ulysses · #1 09-08-2002, 10:59 PM

Red QKo in MP. 6-12 with good mix of excellent/OK/weak players.

UTG limps. UTG+2 folds. I debate my move here (without UTG limper or if the rest folded to me in LP, I auto-raise) and decide to call. Mistake? Should this be a raise or fold? 1 other caller, plus Button and SB. 6 players see the flop.

Flop is all clubs, A-10-3. Checked to me. I bet, hoping to clear out some singleton clubs and maybe stuff like Q10/KJ, giving me a better chance to win if the turn comes K/Q/J. I'd fold to a raise here. 4 call.

Turn is Js,Ac,10c,3c. I bet again. 3 call.

River is 8d,Js,Ac,10c,3c. I bet again, thinking my hand is good. 2 callers.

I show and one caller mucks. The other (LP) shows 5c6c and takes the pot.

Besides raising pre-flop, what would you have done differently here?

Mason Malmuth · #2 09-09-2002, 12:12 AM

Should this be a raise or fold?

This is not a close decision. But you have to accurately guage your opponents. If your raise is likely to clear out the field behind you and the blinds are tight, it is usually a clear raise. If players will come anyway so that you have to hit the flop to win, then just call.

MM

AceHigh · #3 09-09-2002, 11:47 AM

Fold on the flop.

avidguru · #4 09-09-2002, 12:07 PM

Agreed, do you really think a bet is going to clear out a singleton high club? They've got the odds to come along. An inside straight draw against a suited board is not a good position to fight from. Stand down, save your chips and find a better spot. You don't have to win this hand.

Ulysses · #5 09-09-2002, 04:39 PM

As you and AceHigh have stated so succinctly, check-folding the flop was definitely the way to go. Unfortunately, I had been running over this table so much that I got overconfident and picked a bad time to get saucy.

I was winning almost every showdown and the tough players were not in this pot. I knew I would be put on an Ace if I bet out and thought there was a decent chance that I could take this with a flop and turn bet.

I wasn't worried about a singleton high club - they would raise this flop and I would have an easy fold. I was more thinking of folding small/medium clubs to potentially gain some outs. Of course, going to battle so undergunned ended up costing me heavily once I caught my miracle card while drawing dead.

The only positive aspect of this is that I reverted back to solid play after this hand and for the rest of the session got a few extra calls each hand...

Hat Trick · #6 09-22-2002, 10:02 PM

I agree with Mason (of course, it is hard to argue with the "Grand Poobah"). usually raise before the flop but check/fold after the flop. You are SOOOOOOO behind against 3 clubs and drawing to an inside straight or pairing your Q or K. Big loser after the flop, you need to let it go.