god i love the check-raise.. (low content)

elmitchbo · #1 02-20-2005, 08:30 PM

i had a few really sweet ones tonight. to me there is nothing better in a game of poker than a check raise that works to perfection. i use it almost every time i flop a set or better in early or middle position. if i'm 95% sure that no one will bet i'll open, but i really prefer to check-raise. it feels so good to watch somebody limp in with a minimum bet, then it watch it get called around to you... so you can drop the hammer!! anybody have specific check raise strategy they could share? how much do you usually re-raise for? is it possible to over use this strategy? sometimes i think i might over do it and cost myself a few bets here and there.

Shoe · #2 02-20-2005, 09:00 PM

There's nothing I love more than catching one of you freaking check raisers with the nuts.

elmitchbo · #3 02-20-2005, 09:10 PM

seems like you have some animosity for the check raise. i actually thnink about the reaction people have at their computer when i do it. i've been able to bluff and take pots with a check raise many more times than it's back fired. but it does happen occasionally. do you not use the check raise shoe?

Shoe · #4 02-20-2005, 09:30 PM

I do use the check raise, but I have found that betting out and getting raised so that I can 3 bet can be more profitable at times too. It depends on the situation, but if you check raise too much you are going to be costing yourself bets when everyone checks behind you, and on the opportunities where you could have 3 bet, or possibly gotten it capped where as check raising slows everyone down.

Viscant · #5 02-20-2005, 10:56 PM

Why are you check-raising with a set or better? These hands are strong enough that they don't necessarily need that much protection. Unless you're pretty sure the initial bettor is immediately on your left, check-raising will usually accomplish less than betting out in a case you know you're best.
Overusing the check-raise borders on FPS.

memphis57 · #6 02-21-2005, 12:41 AM

You sound like you're using check-raising more for psychological income than for money income, and I think that is -EV. Nothing tightens up the fish and chases them away more than being repeatedly check-raised. And as said, you probably lose far more bets on your good hands than you gain.

There's a place for the check-raise but it really should be pretty rare. And if you care about making max profits, you need to learn how to treat the fish gently. Rubbing it in is a chump-change kind of move, it always costs you dollars in the long run. Do you also show your cards when you win a bluff pot?

stonecoldnuts · #7 02-21-2005, 02:24 AM

most of the games you find these days are filled with enough loose action that betting out is far more profitable then C/R'ing and blocking out some one that really wants to call w/ bottom pair.
I'm a fan of using it to protect weak hands rather than possibly losing customers when i have the nuts.

Shoe · #8 02-21-2005, 04:10 AM

Here is an example of why I don't usually go for the check raise:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, MP1 calls, 4 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP1 calls, SB folds.

River: (13.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Qd Qc (four of a kind, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins 14.50 BB. 

I don't think I would have won as much going for the check-raise, if anyone thinks I should have played it differently, please let me know. Both callers have VPIP over 40.

reubenf · #9 02-21-2005, 04:17 AM

I'm pretty sure the OP is talking about NL and all the responses are about limit.

Shoe · #10 02-21-2005, 04:21 AM

OP, please clarify.