Missed Turn Raise Bluff Opportunity?

gaming_mouse · #1 02-15-2005, 10:16 AM

Anyone prefer a "turn c/raise, check behind the river UI" to my line here?

Villain was tight/passive.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: (7.33 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.66 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.66 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.66 BB

sfer · #2 02-15-2005, 10:35 AM

Why no frop bet?

gaming_mouse · #3 02-15-2005, 10:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why no frop bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the other player was loose, and possibly a LAG. I knew I had no fold equity, but that a raise was at least possible.

I've found that auto-betting UTG versus 2 players here is not right in general. Only against the right oppos.

sfer · #4 02-15-2005, 10:55 AM

I think you have the best hand a lot on that board and against two opponents.

gaming_mouse · #5 02-15-2005, 10:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have the best hand a lot on that board and against two opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, even if that is true, they won't be folding and the next card can swing your equity drastically. I don't know.... I used to bet here always, but I stopped because I found it to be a leak. I'm pretty convinced it's a mistake. You think it's too weak?

sfer · #6 02-15-2005, 11:02 AM

Well, if you do have the best hand and you give 12 collective outs a free turn card to outdraw you, that would suck.

EDIT: Also, to stay on your original topic, when the top card pairs on the turn and he bets again, I wouldn't checkraise. Getting 3-bet would suck tremendously.

EDIT EDIT: Okay, the top card didn't pair on the turn and I suck. Regardless, if the top card did pair I would stand by my statement. I wouldn't semi-bluff without some decent folding equity, which you don't think you have, so I think the turn is fine.

gaming_mouse · #7 02-15-2005, 11:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, if you do have the best hand and you give 12 collective outs a free turn card to outdraw you, that would suck.

EDIT: Also, to stay on your original topic, when the top card pairs on the turn and he bets again, I wouldn't checkraise. Getting 3-bet would suck tremendously.

[/ QUOTE ]

So let's say you bet, and get two calls. What do you do in each of the following cases:

1. The turn is a K or Q
2. The turn is a blank

sfer · #8 02-15-2005, 11:10 AM

I bet the K and the Q. A blank turn I check.

HU I bet almost any card.

gaming_mouse · #9 02-15-2005, 11:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I bet the K and the Q. A blank turn I check.

HU I bet almost any card.

[/ QUOTE ]

How sure are you that this is correct?

Because I am fairly sure that against 2 oppos this is spewing, but I may be basing this on too small of a sample size. I had a 5-10K run where playing as you suggest stuck me real bad, and I determined to give it up. I've been having more success with a more conservative style in situations like this, but I might be wrong.

Also, is it possible you are in a 15/30 mindset?

sfer · #10 02-15-2005, 11:38 AM

Good points about the games I'm playing. I haven't played 15/30--or, for that matter, any serious online poker--in 6 weeks or so. But I've been playing live where people tend to give up their single pair hands more easily (and for those who don't, I tend to identify them very quickly). Playing more live also means that I feel my reads are much better for when I can use a scare card like a K to push someone off a hand.

The turn is a different situation, however. On a T52 flop, I am following through with unimproved Ace high and expecting to take the pot a lot 3-handed. On a QT9 board much less so.