KQo calldown madness.

btspider · #1 02-14-2005, 04:14 PM

First hand vs unknowns. I called b/c i was closing the action on each street.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $3.
2 folds, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO (poster) calls, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (11.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero calls.

I would not have overcalled. Calldown or fold (which street(s)?).

FTRelipsesjeff · #2 02-14-2005, 04:17 PM

Well, I think you should have check raised the flop. If three bet check/fold the turn. If called, lead the turn and fold to a reraise. Calling down in this situation is not a good play.

The only hand that you beat is TT through JJ, or a marginal hand. Without a read here, you cant call this down.

btspider · #3 02-14-2005, 04:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I think you should have check raised the flop. If three bet check/fold the turn. If called, lead the turn and fold to a reraise. Calling down in this situation is not a good play.

The only hand that you beat is TT through JJ, or a marginal hand. Without a read here, you cant call this down.

[/ QUOTE ]

after those overcalls on the flop, i figured i was drawing. so for those 3 SB's that I would pay when 3-bet on the flop, i can see the river card and fold unimproved.

in this instance i reevaluated my chances of winning and called HU closing the action.

MercTec · #4 02-14-2005, 04:23 PM

I like leading out on this flop. Either the PFR calls and you are probably ahead, or he raises and thins out the field. I think the hand gets easier that way.

Yads · #5 02-14-2005, 04:26 PM

You have to bet that flop.

meep_42 · #6 02-14-2005, 04:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like leading out on this flop. Either the PFR calls and you are probably ahead, or he raises and thins out the field. I think the hand gets easier that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my first thought.
I'm also not sure what hands you beat on the river enough to call, but given the pot size, I don't think this is that terrible.

-d

FTRelipsesjeff · #7 02-14-2005, 04:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]

after those overcalls on the flop, i figured i was drawing. so for those 3 SB's that I would pay when 3-bet on the flop, i can see the river card and fold unimproved.

in this instance i reevaluated my chances of winning and called HU closing the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you didnt fold the river though because you would have odds. Check raising here takes control of the hand and if your opponent raises preflop you save 1 bet. If he waits to raise the turn then its the same price. Building the pot also gives you better odds for chasing, and if another Q or K comes you've disguised your hand.

FTRelipsesjeff · #8 02-14-2005, 04:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like leading out on this flop. Either the PFR calls and you are probably ahead, or he raises and thins out the field. I think the hand gets easier that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats an option too, I dont mind that play.

Shillx · #9 02-14-2005, 04:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like leading out on this flop. Either the PFR calls and you are probably ahead, or he raises and thins out the field. I think the hand gets easier that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is bad dude. If we are ahead we want to thin the field, but it won't ever happen because the villian will just call with worse hands (or fold). If we are behind, we don't want the villian to thin the field because we want to get a good price on our draw.

So that is the dilemma with betting out. We thin the field when we are beat and we keep the field in when we are ahead. Checking and calling is clearly the way to go in this hand.

Brad

FTRelipsesjeff · #10 02-14-2005, 04:36 PM

How is check/calling more profitable than betting? With betting you give your opponents an option to fold, by just calling you aren't doing anything.