Do you agree with this?

David04 · #1 02-12-2005, 02:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Cash NL game, you pick up KK on the button. UTG raises 4xBB, MP re-raises all in, MP+1 calls the all in. I lay down those Kings every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against typical players, do you fold KK here?

PoBoy321 · #2 02-12-2005, 02:22 PM

It depends on a number of factors, but barring a read, yes.

telltale · #3 02-12-2005, 02:37 PM

Are you full table or short handed? I've noticed in LLNL (1-2NL, or lower) people will move in with and call all-ins with weaker hands (JJ, TT, AK, AQ). If its short handed I'd call. Its around 30-1 that on a six person table you'll run into AA if you hold KK. I'd call.

zaxx19 · #4 02-12-2005, 02:51 PM

Its 30-1 ....on a given random hand. This when I think poker stove people take this crap a little to far. Given the action it is significantly higher than 30-1....

Depends entirely on reads...beatability of the game..and how many players are at the table. 6 handed I might need to call.

tek · #5 02-12-2005, 03:16 PM

It also depends on the players and all in stack size compared to yours.

telltale · #6 02-12-2005, 06:10 PM

I agree that the action seems to suggest that the odds are less than 30-1, but at this low level I wouldn't bet the farm that the Called all-in is AA. 10 handed a tougher call. 6 handed I'd call.

xorbie · #7 02-12-2005, 07:45 PM

It depends. The reraise all in from MP could be just a QQ/JJ trying to isolate or take down the pot now, and the call from MP+1 depends. If he has a short stack, it could be AK, KK (unlikely, obviously), QQ, JJ (maybe).

It also depends on what sort of stuff UTG likes to raise 4xBB with. Big PP? AK? AQs?

the alex · #8 02-12-2005, 08:14 PM

I'm getting the feeling that you guys are looking for reasons to play the hand and aren't finding many. Yes, it depends, but I think that laying it down is read dependent, not playing the hand .

This is a cash game, not a tourney. Your "big lawdowns" are solely read dependent all the time. They're "big laydowns" because mathematically, you SHOULD have the best hand, but your read tells you that you don't. These are less important in cash games as you can rebuy, make the same decision and get your money back and then some in the next hour or even less. (I'm not saying that reads are not important as I believe that the math is only an asset in NL if you can put your opponents on hands.)

To believe that people only go all in with AA and KK is ridiculous. People go all in with AA, KK, AK, AQ, AJ, JJ, TT preflop. You see it all the time. There are people who have problems laying down 99 and KQ many times.

I say fold in the RARE case that you know someone has AA. The times that you make this call and are up against QQ, JJ, TT, AK, AQ, and AJ and win will make up for the times that you lose to Aces.

I would really have to feel as though I'm against Aces to lay down here. I don't really have to feel that I'm not against Aces to call.