2nd nuts in a super good home game...

[blackaces13]

This is from a juicy home game featuring a LOT of loose/passive calling stations who know very little about the game and can't even judge the relative strength of their own hands.

That said the SB in this hand is a GOOD player. Due to the nature of the game this good player plays very predictably, as I do, because there is very little value in deception considering the opponents. SB usually makes pot sized bets w/ TPGK or better and sometimes draws depending on her mood. Usually a flop bet from her means a good made hand.

On to the hand. We play with two 25 cent blinds and the avg. chip stack is about $25 so there are implied odds out the wazoo. I have about $30 in front of me, SB has me covered. There are 9 players playing.

I have J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the button. 3 bad players limp in and I call for the quater hoping to catch a big flop. Blinds check along and 5 of us see the flop:

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players, $1.25 pot)

SB bets $0.75, 2 folds, 1 late position player calls, I just call.

Turn: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, $3.50)

SB bets $1.00, LP (horrible horrible player) calls, I call again.

River: Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, $6.50)

SB leads for $5 (hmmm, she does like to make weak ass bets w/ draws I think to myself), LP actually folds which is a shock to me, I have about $25 in front of me now w/ the 2nd nuts so I min. raise to $10 because I don't want to let a set or 2 pair off the hook and no one has shown SB any resistance thus far so she has no reason not to bet those hands again.

SB quickly puts me ALL-IN for $15 and change more!!!

So, How'd I do?

[amoeba]

if you cant call a reraise on the river, don't minraise him.

I think flop and turn are ok.

fold preflop.

[BigF]

"2nd nuts" doesn't describe your hand/board accurately, as bad players are generally in love with sooooted aces. Besides, there's a subtle psychological factor. Consider the following two scenarios.
1. your hand: Jc 7c. board: Kc 5c 6h 8h Qc
2. your hand: Kc 7c. board: 9c 5c 6h 8h 3c

Both times you have the "2nd nuts" but it's much more likely for a bad player to put you all in with a Queen high flush in scenario #2 than a 10 high flush in #1.

You probably already know this, but bad players get dealt good cards and make monster hands too, probably more so than a good player.

[blackaces13]

[ QUOTE ]


fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I may not have made this clear enough but we play with 2 25 cent blinds, there is no "Big" blind. Considering that, my position on the button, the terrible players who ALWAYS pay off and are very passive I think its an easy call.

Would you call it out of the SB in a regular structured game? If so then calling the same price on the button is even better.

[blackaces13]

[ QUOTE ]
"2nd nuts" doesn't describe your hand/board accurately, as bad players are generally in love with sooooted aces. Besides, there's a subtle psychological factor. Consider the following two scenarios.
1. your hand: Jc 7c. board: Kc 5c 6h 8h Qc
2. your hand: Kc 7c. board: 9c 5c 6h 8h 3c

Both times you have the "2nd nuts" but it's much more likely for a bad player to put you all in with a Queen high flush in scenario #2 than a 10 high flush in #1.

You probably already know this, but bad players get dealt good cards and make monster hands too, probably more so than a good player.

[/ QUOTE ]

The player I was against here was a good player. Also, she got a free look out of the SB (yeah, thats not a typo) so her hand here is essentially random (actually worse than random since no raise preflop) and even if she has a flush I have no reason to suspect its A-high prior to the all-in.

BTW, how does 2nd nuts not describe my hand? Its the 2nd best possible hand isn't it?