QQ re-raised and K falls What to do?

telltale · #1 02-09-2005, 05:31 AM

Table Table 14801 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 3: telltale12 ( $212.7 )
Seat 5: CashQuick ( $188.7 )
Seat 8: squirrelpoop ( $113.75 )
Seat 10: ilovelosing ( $87.75 )
Seat 6: givemeaname ( $96 )
ilovelosing posts small blind [$1].
telltale12 posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to telltale12 [ Qh Qc ]
CashQuick calls [$2].
givemeaname folds.
squirrelpoop raises [$4].
ilovelosing calls [$3].
telltale12 raises [$10].
CashQuick folds.
squirrelpoop calls [$8].
ilovelosing folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kd, 3s, 5c ]
KashCrew25 has joined the table.
telltale12 bets [$20].
squirrelpoop calls [$20].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]

What do you do here. The table is weak-tight. Not too much pre-flop raising and when they do its proves to be a big hand. This guy is no different. Do you fire again on the Turn or Check call, or check fold?

Tilt · #2 02-09-2005, 10:44 AM

Clearly check/fold the turn. What would he reraise with here preflop on a weak tight table? You are up against kings or aces my friend, maybe AK. Lay it down.

If he checks behind on the turn don't fall for it. Depending on the board check/call or check/fold the river unless its a huge bet.

TakeMeToTheRiver · #3 02-09-2005, 10:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]

If he checks behind on the turn don't fall for it. Depending on the board check/call or check/fold the river unless its a huge bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

(emphasis added)

That's right -- only call if you can lose a lot. Yes, a big bet can be a bluff -- at least as often it means you are beat.

If I feel villain is week, I may check/call a small bet on the river (25% of the pot) -- you will likely be paying villain off, but your average online player will be bluffing at least one time in five.

Tilt · #4 02-09-2005, 11:23 AM

Yes, I wasn't clear in my post, meant to say check/fold to a huge bet.

I would pay off a small value bet - even if I don't snap off a bluff very often there are metagame considerations. I would fold to the large bet here for sure because of the way KK would get played by many SSNL players when they hit a set on a scar free board. If he has KK you would often see the line of: Call the flop, check behind the turn and pray for a bet to you on the river...if you don't get it, push it all in to look like a desperate bluff.

Sorry for the confusion.

mcb · #5 02-09-2005, 11:50 AM

I'd check fold the turn based on your description of the table. On the flop I would have bet more to push him off a weak K.

lil_o · #6 02-09-2005, 12:04 PM

I think you answered it yourself when you said the table and the villian are weak-tight. What hands can the villian have where he minraises and then calls a reraise. I am most likely expecting AK in this spot, maybe JJ or KQs.

I probably would have bet less on the flop as an information bet to see where I am. If you lead out again on the turn you become susceptible to being raised and then you have to fold for sure.

Based on your weak-tight read I don't think the villian would be staying in with anything less than top-pair, check-fold.

telltale · #7 02-09-2005, 08:10 PM

I checked the turn suspecting KQ. And he bet 20 into a 60 pot. Call, fold?

amoeba · #8 02-09-2005, 08:15 PM

I fold, you definitely can't call.

as to raise....its very read independent.

telltale · #9 02-10-2005, 01:36 AM

Thanks to everyone who commented on this hand.

Telltale

TheWorstPlayer · #10 02-10-2005, 02:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I checked the turn suspecting KQ. And he bet 20 into a 60 pot. Call, fold?

[/ QUOTE ]
Why would someone min raise KQ in EP? It seems more likely to me that it is KK or AA, honestly. And if this guy is not at all tricky, you can clearly fold. If the guy might be making a delayed bluff, or might even be thinking that his small pocket pair is good over your AQ or whatever, then you have to take that into account. Against normal competition here, though, I think you are facing a K or better 99% of the time. Fold.