Collusion?

[se2schul]

Is this collusion or is it allowed at Party?

#Game No : 1560553868
***** Hand History for Game 1560553868 *****
NL Hold'em $10 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:9385614 Level:3
Blinds(25/50) - Tuesday, February 08, 17:24:08 EDT 2005
Table Table 11213 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 4: se2schul ( $650 )
Seat 1: ajkennedy ( $890 )
Seat 2: PrinceOfSpad ( $775 )
Seat 10: dolemitefunk ( $5685 )
Trny:9385614 Level:3
Blinds(25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to se2schul [ 9d 9s ]
ajkennedy raises [100].
PrinceOfSpad: 6
PrinceOfSpad calls [100].
se2schul is all-In [625]
dolemitefunk folds.
ajkennedy: are you going to call prince?
PrinceOfSpad: no
se2schul: can't ask that
ajkennedy is all-In [790]
PrinceOfSpad folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kh, 2d, Tc ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ah ]
se2schul: it's collusion
** Dealing River ** [ Ad ]
ajkennedy shows [ Jc, Ks ] two pairs, aces and kings.
se2schul shows [ 9d, 9s ] two pairs, aces and nines.
se2schul finished in fourth place.
ajkennedy wins 240 chips from side pot #1 with two pairs, aces and kings.
ajkennedy wins 1450 chips from the main pot with two pairs, aces and kings.
i never said i was the best......lucky and decent....thats all
se2schul has left the table.
The Small Blind left the table. The Dealer button remains in place.
Game #1560557437 starts.

[Dallara]

Yes, 100%. Most players don't realize that it is, but if you report it to Party, they'll warn them and probably ban their chat for a while.

[AtticusFinch]

It's certainly inappropriate, especially if they know each other. I'd report it.

The obvious flip side is prince could lie and call with AA or something. I'd still report it.

[se2schul]

Follow up:
I emailed party as suggested. Here is the reply:

Dear Steve,

Thank you for contacting us.

Thank you for bringing this to our notice. We do see that the conversation between these players was indeed inappropriate. Hence we have conducted a detailed investigation on both the accounts to check for any possible team play between them.

We have looked into all the necessary aspects of their history in our card room and we would like to share with you these important facts that helped us arrive at a conclusion:

1- Both these players are coming from different states in USA.

2- This is the only tournament where they have shared tables, in their entire association with this card room.

3- We have gone through all the game records of this tournament and confirm that there is no sign of collusion involved. Also note that we have focused not only on the hands in which the player has been involved, but also all the hands in which they have been together by themselves.

However, we do agree that the table conversation that transpired between these players is inappropriate to say the least. As a result of this report and consequent investigation, we have now

1) Blocked the chatting facilities of the player *ajkennedy* and *PrinceOfSpad*
2) Barred both the players from sharing the same tables in this card room.
3) Flagged their accounts to periodically review the activities in these accounts.
4) Issued stern warnings to both the players, informing them about possible sterner actions in case such activities are repeated in their account.

Steve, we thank you for getting this to our notice, as this is in keeping with our priority of keeping up the integrity of this card room. It indeed is heartening to have players like you in this card room who care about the integrity of our games.

Regards,

Jada Brown
Investigations Team for Poker
alerts@partypoker.com

[Dallara]

That looks like a pretty good response. I was actually at a table last night where two guys seemed to be chip dumping to each other. I reported it and sent some hand histories to Party, so we'll see what happens.

I didn't use to think that this was so much of a problem, but I was watching ActionMonkey on a Step5 Monday night and there was a whole conversation about these three Russian guys who tried to collude against him in an earlier Step 5.

[Shorty35]

I just cant believe that this thorough response comes from the same Party service organization that gives us "this tournaent will be paused shortly....". I am very glad that they take collusion seriously.

I have been taking an informal poll of youger players in B&M cardrooms (Las Vegas, California, Foxwoods). Nearly 50% of the college/recent grad players tell me that they colluded while in college.

[AtticusFinch]

Wow, I am very pleasantly surprised. You couldn't ask for a better response than that.

[se2schul]

Personally, I feel that a cheater's winnings should be garnished and distributed to those that didn't cheat.

Check out the response below to an earlier case of collusion against me where Party did just that.

----

Dear Steve,

Thank you for contacting us with your concern. We have investigated into the account of the player "anaconda80us" and we do agree that the actions of the player are totally unacceptable.

We have placed him 3rd and moved you to 2nd place, and transferred the difference in winnings between the two places, the amount of $5 has been taken from his account and transferred to your account.

We hope you find this to your satisfaction.

If you have any further questions, comments or concerns, please contact us at alerts@PartyPoker.com and we will be more than glad to assist you.

Best regards,
Jathin Paladugu,
Investigations Team

--Original Message--
From: se2schul@gmail.com
Date: 2005-01-02 16:17
To: abuse@partypoker.com; info@partypoker.com
Cc: se2schul@gmail.com
Subject: Collusion during a Sit 'n Go[#2184150]

I would like to report a case of collusion on January 2, 2005. It
occured in #Game No : 1380773393 with only 3 players left. I was all
in when player anaconda80us told spartan524 what his hand was and that
he'd fold to help take me out. The conversation from anaconda80us
telling spartan524 his hand was clearly collusion against me. I would
hope that Party Poker suspend the chat priviledges of anaconda80us and
give him the 3rd place finish that a cheater deseves, bumping me into
second place.

Below is the hand history in question.
Sincerely,
Steve Schultz (se2schul)

#Game No : 1380773393
***** Hand History for Game 1380773393 *****
NL Hold'em $5 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:8349336 Level:6
Blinds(150/300) - Sunday, January 02, 15:53:56 EDT 2005
Table Table 12798 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 3: spartan524 ( $4035 )
Seat 1: se2schul ( $260 )
Seat 2: anaconda80us ( $3705 )
Trny:8349336 Level:6
Blinds(150/300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to se2schul [ 6h 7d ]
spartan524 raises [600].
se2schul is all-In [110]
anaconda80us calls [300].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ac, Th, Qd ]
anaconda80us: hope u got a good hand
anaconda80us: i got XXXX
anaconda80us: take him out
anaconda80us checks.
anaconda80us: 7 8
spartan524 bets [300].
anaconda80us: if u wanti'll just fold
anaconda80us folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7s ]
** Dealing River ** [ Ah ]
se2schul: dude, you can't have conversation like that
spartan524 shows [ Tc, Jc ] two pairs, aces and tens.
se2schul shows [ 6h, 7d ] two pairs, aces and sevens.
se2schul finished in third place and won $10.
spartan524 wins 980 chips from side pot #1 with two pairs, aces and tens.
spartan524 wins 780 chips from the main pot with two pairs, aces and tens.
se2schul has left the table.
Game #1380776391 starts.

[GauchoFish]

they say that...what percentage do you think actually did and of those, what percentage made money at it as opposed to dumping because they had not clue what they were doing?

[willie24]

[ QUOTE ]
Nearly 50% of the college/recent grad players tell me that they colluded while in college.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have trouble believing that 10% of recent college grad players, much less 50%, are smart enough collude successfully enough to make a total collusion profit over $10.

did the people you surveyed admit to aggressive collusion- using signals and such to get more money in pots? or just the typical passive stuff?